# The Phenomenon: What is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583 "2025-05-20T13:19:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/41 "2025-05-21T20:06:06Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The doctor who saw the photo of it is free to explain why one of the pieces removed had U-236 in it considering that there is virtually no naturally occurring U-236 on earth, and when it does exist it is mixed in with far far more abundant U-238 and U-235. There may only be 30kg of naturally occurring U-236 on earth. How much U-236 was in this extracted item? Was it in ratio to U-238, or free? Did they do any trace analysis to see it it matched the signatures of European nuclear reactors? What level of investigation proceeded from “we detect U-236”? Because your source for the abundance of U-236 describes using those tracers to measure sources of the U-236 for potentially tracking contamination from specific reactors. A more logical conclusion is that there was some testing error, or that it was made up to enhance his argument about extraterrestrial source, or he misintrepreted some information, or… > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I was just thinking about this question this morning. However tempting it may be, it’s bad math to think about probability using a sample size of one. We have absolutely no idea what life looks like on any planet except our own. It may be that everything out there looks like crabs. But it also may be that sentient, tech-using life tends to evolve into a bipedal form with multiple digits on its four limbs. “Right, because convergent/ parallel evolution shows that similar environments create similar functional needs, and thus similar appearances.” Why 4 limbs? Why not 6, or 8? Why upright walking and not scampering on 4 with another 4 of a different shape for grasping, the way spiders or lobsters have differing appendages? Why a soft, smooth skin, rather than fur or scales or a completely new form of dermal armor? Why teeth, layed out in a semicurcular curve at the bottom of the face? Why not a beak set in the middle of the torso? Yes, a only have a dataset of one planet, and one chain of evolution, but even that one dataset has a great deal of diversity, branches with hundreds of different directions and shapes. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I guess its possible that the physiology of an animal necessary to engage in technology is the same, But like you said, why one one set of knees that bend one direction instead of the other? Just because the being would need some sort of appendages to manipulate tools hardly justifies they need to look like hands, with specific thumbs. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/42 "2025-05-21T21:12:32Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > It’s not a Joe Rogan link Did I say it was? All you have to do is Google Jacques Vallee and the first hit under videos is - ta da! The Joe Rogan Experience #2288. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/43 "2025-05-21T23:22:51Z")
Everybody who touts these incredible claims should first read Martin Gardner’s [Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science](https://www.amazon.com/Fads-Fallacies-Name-Science-Popular/dp/0486203948/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UGE2B6DR6EEH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.pAzWr-6_Q2ACXCA2uENY6UtGjjhvah9Zd-EJ5SeIJfovLjXFOUcUP6XDfdlZ8nzjQGaeLahoVPTrtzopk4tU-dzJPS5gtu-o5f5pq2qF_26LFyB6GCnVE9Q-e34AfocXUzqbf-q66NPQcnQt04mySe7tPEFaTvCWzsORsNf8nPiWM-8L_8KlIAUVWhgGviGgsD3cTrDfafkvhJk1uT-EaMHkf7OB0C8yL0BUnvgnRxk.a4AAdMT6Ld8IHWR4r1qABXbUQCKScK2K8VUAI1NYZmc&dib_tag=se&keywords=%22in+the+name+of+science%22&qid=1747868267&s=books&sprefix=in+the+name+of+science+%2Cstripbooks%2C159&sr=1-1), the expanded, easier-to-get version of a 1952 book. That book, first written more than 70 years ago, has dozens of examples of pseudoscientific notions that became immensely popular despite the skepticism, if not outright debunking, by actual scientists. Most of them look positively deluded from today’s perspective, but a few continue to live on, because the population of people who want to believe never diminishes. > “Although we are amused, we may also be embarrassed to find our friends or even ourselves among the gullible advocates of plausible-sounding doubletalk.” — Saturday Review The Dope is easily substituted for Saturday Review. The real problem is that fleecing the gullible is far more lucrative than debunking the silliness. And new forms can be created literally overnight, overwhelming any rational responses with Gish Gallops of “evidence.” The Internet has changed nothing except the speed pseudoscience can spread. Pseudoscience remains pseudoscience. Read Gardner. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/44 "2025-05-22T20:07:36Z")
Doot doo doo doo doot? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/45 "2025-05-23T12:56:23Z")
Because I’m more interested in the theoretical concept of the phenomenon and its implications if real than just dismissing it out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/46 "2025-05-23T13:41:42Z")
The entire idea is risible fantasy. There is nothing meaningful to discuss; As fantasy it can have whatever real-world implications you (any you) want it to have. Next up: how well does invisible pink unicorn shit work as plant fertilizer for my real rose garden? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/47 "2025-05-23T14:01:38Z")
All the evidence I can dig up tells me there is no pony in that pile of horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/48 "2025-05-23T14:24:48Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Because I’m more interested in the theoretical concept of the phenomenon and its implications if real There’s not enough information about this mythicial Phenomenon to draw any reasonable implications. You can draw any conclusions you want based on whatever assumptions you decide to make. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/49 "2025-05-23T14:39:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Everybody who touts these incredible claims should first read Martin Gardner’s [Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science](https://www.amazon.com/Fads-Fallacies-Name-Science-Popular/dp/0486203948/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UGE2B6DR6EEH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.pAzWr-6_Q2ACXCA2uENY6UtGjjhvah9Zd-EJ5SeIJfovLjXFOUcUP6XDfdlZ8nzjQGaeLahoVPTrtzopk4tU-dzJPS5gtu-o5f5pq2qF_26LFyB6GCnVE9Q-e34AfocXUzqbf-q66NPQcnQt04mySe7tPEFaTvCWzsORsNf8nPiWM-8L_8KlIAUVWhgGviGgsD3cTrDfafkvhJk1uT-EaMHkf7OB0C8yL0BUnvgnRxk.a4AAdMT6Ld8IHWR4r1qABXbUQCKScK2K8VUAI1NYZmc&dib_tag=se&keywords=%22in+the+name+of+science%22&qid=1747868267&s=books&sprefix=in+the+name+of+science+%2Cstripbooks%2C159&sr=1-1), In high school, I went to one of those math competitions. My prize for my results was a copy of that book. Little did I know when they handed it to me how actually great that prize was! Excuse me, my N-ray meter is going off. Time to tap the Orgonne Energy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/50 "2025-05-23T15:06:33Z")
Something like a phenomenon Something like a phenomenon Something like a phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/51 "2025-05-23T16:00:29Z")
Phenomenon. Be doo be doo be ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/52 "2025-05-23T17:14:36Z")
Sorry, I’m not getting the reference: > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Phenomenon, doo doo doo doot doo > Phenomenon, doot do do doo > [@74westy](#): > > Phenomenon. > Be doo be doo be > [@Leaper](#): > > Doot doo doo doo doot? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/53 "2025-05-23T17:15:45Z")
No ones forcing you to contribute? Jacques Vallee is just hypothesising a thread of familiar patterns told in folklore and recent 20th century UAP sightings to conclude that there is more than surface level myth making and is pattern is more akin to a control mechanism guiding humanity to an unknown outcome. Why this has raised the consternation a few is bizzare. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/54 "2025-05-23T17:17:41Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Because I’m more interested in the theoretical concept of the phenomenon and its implications if real than just dismissing it out of hand. If it’s real then all of science - all, every bit of it - is wrong. One of them can exist but not both. Science works and gives us the world we live in, down to the smallest sip of water we drink. If all of science is wrong, then our brains have never worked right in human history. That’s the implication and also why we are dismissing it out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/55 "2025-05-23T17:19:55Z")
I don’t see how the interdimensional hypothesis conflicts with current scientific understanding if it were to be discovered as true ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/56 "2025-05-23T17:23:30Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Sorry, I’m not getting the reference: > > Phenomenon, doo doo doo doot doo > Phenomenon, doot do do doo [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/TbZ_hTEOKZc/maxresdefault.jpg "Muppet Songs: Mahna Mahna (Muppet Show - 1976)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbZ_hTEOKZc) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/57 "2025-05-23T17:40:34Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > No ones forcing you to contribute? You’re right. I was unhelpful. I’ve said my piece and good luck with your thread. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/58 "2025-05-23T17:40:51Z")
Yes, and I can write a paper that says that I found Dilithium in a small lump of green putty I found in my armpit one midsummer morning, but it’s not very believable unless I also publish the test results. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/59 "2025-05-23T17:56:03Z")
I got it, and was thinking the same thing when I read the op. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/60 "2025-05-23T18:13:40Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I don’t see how the interdimensional hypothesis conflicts with current scientific understanding if it were to be discovered as true Your OP said that the Phenomenon is a “force” that “Exhibits physical and non-physical characteristics simultaneously.” It “Interacts with humans” and “Alters perception, memory, and even reality itself.” And you don’t see how that would invalidate every understanding we have of science, down to core laws like the conservation of energy? I get wanting to believe. Nevertheless, some beliefs can only be held by giving up other beliefs. One cannot believe in a flat-earth without giving up all known science. The same is true for the Phenomenon. They cannot be merged with reality as we know it unless everything that makes our world work is wrong from the base up. Science or woo. There is no superposition in which they can be simultaneously true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583.md?page=4)