# The Phoenix Project Kickstarter (Attention City of Heroes Fans) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232 "2013-10-03T00:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/21 "2013-10-09T19:45:51Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Never used Kickstarter. Questions: > > [ul] > [li]Is it possible to buy Kickstarter tiers as **gifts** for other people?[/li] > [li]Can an _organization_…like, say, a gaming group…buy a Kickstarter tier? For the purpose of getting an in-game mention of the organization (as opposed to an individual) at some tier or other?[/li] > [li]After decades of vaporware – the Curse of the Superhero Game – why am I filled with wild, soaring hope?[/li][/ul] Sorry, I’ve been insanely busy. 1: I don’t see why not - you just link the forum account and give it to them. 2: I… don’t see why not! Be creative! 3: We’re doing our best, I swear. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/22 "2013-10-09T19:47:43Z")
We’re using UDK3 for the engine, so anything that’ll handle a Unreal based game right now. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Unreal\_Engine\_games#Unreal\_Engine\_3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3) If you can handle these, we can probably handle your PC. Two: Someone with professional experience writing RPG modules, is the best way I can describe it. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/23 "2013-10-09T20:29:59Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Two: Someone with professional experience writing RPG modules, is the best way I can describe it. I don’t have professional experience with modules, in the sense of published tabletop RPGs, but I’ve written “modules” for LARPs a fair bit. I’d guess that you’re looking for a mission writer who’s good at stringing together interesting, well balanced encounters inside the missions, plus writing flavorful and lore-consistent flavor text and engaging hooks from one mission to the next within a linear storyline. Encounter design was always one of CoH’s issues–too many random mooks standing around, punching their fists, for no apparent reason. Even mooks have lives. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/24 "2013-10-11T01:03:16Z")
That was more of an outside group problem, rather than an in mission one. And they got better at that as the game progressed. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/25 "2013-10-11T01:08:57Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > That was more of an outside group problem, rather than an in mission one. And they got better at that as the game progressed. Yes. Frankly, I hated it when mobs started roving and looking for trouble… but hell, if you’re going to strap on spandex, you have to expect trouble to come find you. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/26 "2013-10-11T02:09:43Z")
Yes, there were a lot of zone mobs doing nothing most of the time, but I was speaking specifically of mission design. They _did_ get much better at it, partly just from learning along the way and partly from having more tools (in the form of emotes, among other things). I’m not talking about just patrol scripting, though that’s part of it. I’m talking about giving the mobs that are standing around some sort of purpose or activity other than waiting for a player to come along and clobber them. It doesn’t have to be anything complex–have them stand near some object and fiddle with it, or talk smack, or arm wrestle, or dig through a crate, or whatever. If you show up to stop a robbery, the mobs should be pilfering through things and carrying stuff. If they’re on guard, they should be guarding a door or something, not hanging out down a little dead-end corridor. (Those guys should be sneaking a nap, or shooting dice, or something.) Better than just giving them something to do would be to make it significant in some way–that guy rifling through the crate will bolt with his loot if you don’t stop him, or pull out a grenade to use on you, or something. The napping guys are actually under a sleep effect, and you can sneak by them. The guys on guard duty have a perception bonus, but don’t aggro as a group. Doing all that would introduce a lot more variety, but it would require really good encounter-building tools to do it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/27 "2013-10-11T02:22:09Z")
That sounds like the kind of stuff that they are looking to do in CoT. I don’t think it would ahve been possible in COH without a lot of extra work on the Devs part. They had more control over stuff than we did in AE, but that level of detail would have been hard to do. ---
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/28 "2013-10-11T05:02:14Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > We’re using UDK3 for the engine, so anything that’ll handle a Unreal based game right now. > > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Unreal\_Engine\_games#Unreal\_Engine\_3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3) > > If you can handle these, we can probably handle your PC. > > Two: Someone with professional experience writing RPG modules, is the best way I can describe it. I am a little surprised that you are going with UE3. Their licensing costs for the full source are enormous. That is, unless they have changed the cost structure since the last time my company licensed it. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/29 "2013-10-11T05:29:45Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > I am a little surprised that you are going with UE3. Their licensing costs for the full source are enormous. That is, unless they have changed the cost structure since the last time my company licensed it. Hence the kickstarter. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/30 "2013-10-11T11:16:11Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I don’t have professional experience with modules, in the sense of published tabletop RPGs, but I’ve written “modules” for LARPs a fair bit. I’d guess that you’re looking for a mission writer who’s good at stringing together interesting, well balanced encounters inside the missions, plus writing flavorful and lore-consistent flavor text and engaging hooks from one mission to the next within a linear storyline. You may be exactly what we need, Balance. Get on [www.cityoftitans.com](http://www.cityoftitans.com), send a PM to Mentalshock, include a link to a sample if you have it. You got everything right but the linear part. We’re doing something _new_ with storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/31 "2013-10-11T11:17:48Z")
Unity and Hero Engine were unsuitable. Crytek would not respond to us for weeks when we tried to work with them. Unreal have been FANTASTIC. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/32 "2013-10-11T12:38:07Z")
It’s already at 400K… Would someone who’s got experience as a designer in a MUD (yeah, we didn’t make pretty pics) and who’s good at contingency planning / the what-if game be any helpful? I’ve been itching to get back into writing, and I’ve got a lot more experience at making landscapes or scenarios for other people to play in than at actual storytelling. I’m one of those weirdos who love it when players come up with a solution I didn’t think of. ---
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/33 "2013-10-11T13:46:55Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Hence the kickstarter. Last I remember the licensing is $750,000, but it is possible that has been reduced over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/34 "2013-10-11T17:40:53Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > Last I remember the licensing is $750,000, but it is possible that has been reduced over the years. Since they are doing that, plus getting multiple licenses for professional 3D programs, I would guess it has been lowered. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/35 "2013-10-11T18:38:04Z")
Thanks for the help about the Add Ons. I see they’ve put info in a FAQ as well. > [@drgnrdr07](#): > > Last I remember the licensing is $750,000, but it is possible that has been reduced over the years. Under the Budget section of their Kickstarter home, it says they’ll be paying about $70,000 for the Unreal Engine. > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Get on [www.cityoftitans.com](http://www.cityoftitans.com). Not that I have time to volunteer, but that website is on McAfee’s TrustedSource black list. Maybe nothing you can do about it, but maybe there’s something you can do. > [@Balance](#): > > Better than just giving them something to do would be to make it significant in some way–that guy rifling through the crate will bolt with his loot if you don’t stop him, or pull out a grenade to use on you, or something. The napping guys are actually under a sleep effect, and you can sneak by them. The guys on guard duty have a perception bonus, but don’t aggro as a group. Doing all that would introduce a lot more variety, but it would require really good encounter-building tools to do it all the time. The more complex behavior they can put into the mobs, the better. Static spawns with attack-largest-threat-until-die behavior is tiresome. Good games can still be fun with it, but a great game will have smarter mobs. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/36 "2013-10-11T20:00:28Z")
**E-Sabbath** , I hope you don’t mind, but I sent a message to Mentalshock as well. I’m published, creative, and keen on the project, and I’d love to lend a hand! ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/37 "2013-10-11T20:04:15Z")
I don’t mean to be the wet blanket here, but what makes you think you can build an MMO with the amount of money you are funding for? Admittedly, since you are all volunteer, you’re not drawing salaries, but that raises questions about how you plan to ever get this project done at all in a vaguely reasonable time frame. November 2015 seems…optimistic. Honestly, I saw this Kickstarter the other day, and I gave it a read and concluded it was doomed. Maybe I’m wrong, and certainly it seems a lot of people disagree with me, but… have any of you ever made a game before? Sorry. I’ll check my gloom at the door in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/38 "2013-10-11T20:43:41Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > **E-Sabbath** , I hope you don’t mind, but I sent a message to Mentalshock as well. I’m published, creative, and keen on the project, and I’d love to lend a hand! I suspect that the more competent writers they have, the better. Besides, in my experience, some of the best module writing comes from collaborative efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/39 "2013-10-11T20:47:54Z")
Yeah, I wrote him as well… this was one dangerous place to drop “we need a writer” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/40 "2013-10-11T20:50:44Z")
Dangerous schmangerous. We’re gonna rock their world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232.md?page=3)