# The Phoenix Project Kickstarter (Attention City of Heroes Fans) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232 "2013-10-03T00:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/41 "2013-10-11T20:53:46Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Sorry. I’ll check my gloom at the door in the future. “…and the last thing that fluttered out of the box was… hope.” It’s probably better than an armed takeover of NCsoft and standing the sonuvabitch who unilaterally closed the studio and the game up against a wall. Probably. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/42 "2013-10-13T00:48:40Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > I don’t mean to be the wet blanket here, but what makes you think you can build an MMO with the amount of money you are funding for? Admittedly, since you are all volunteer, you’re not drawing salaries, but that raises questions about how you plan to ever get this project done at all in a vaguely reasonable time frame. November 2015 seems…optimistic. #1: Self funding stages. We make the costume designer first, which has certain features - and creates a funding stream. #2: This kickstarter will allow us to make the mmo that we can show to investors, and get the REAL money. 9/10ths of a MMO is content, 1/10th is programming. Content can be done in parallel, we just need to make a test zone and sell it to someone who will invest in us to fill the rest out. We have proved we have the audience. We will have proven we can do the work - we just need to find the rest of the money, and it _will be there_ because it would be blindly stupid for someone not to invest in a sure thing. Even if we don’t get the money, we build that 10% and just keep building. It’ll just be slower. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/43 "2013-10-13T01:53:13Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > “…and the last thing that fluttered out of the box was… hope.” > > It’s probably better than an armed takeover of NCsoft and standing the sonuvabitch who unilaterally closed the studio and the game up against a wall. > > Probably. > > Maybe. Only for certain definitions of “better.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/44 "2013-10-14T13:31:18Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > #1: Self funding stages. We make the costume designer first, which has certain features - and creates a funding stream. > > #2: This kickstarter will allow us to make the mmo that we can show to investors, and get the REAL money. 9/10ths of a MMO is content, 1/10th is programming. Content can be done in parallel, we just need to make a test zone and sell it to someone who will invest in us to fill the rest out. We have proved we have the audience. We will have proven we can do the work - we just need to find the rest of the money, and it _will be there_ because it would be blindly stupid for someone not to invest in a sure thing. > > Even if we don’t get the money, we build that 10% and just keep building. It’ll just be slower. Fair enough; Thank you and good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/45 "2013-10-14T16:14:06Z")
I’m happy to see they’ve shown us all their stretch goals. Probably my favorite is the Pets class. The goals go all the way up $2000k, which is very ambitious. They got to try for it. 🙂 But my crude statistics say $1183k is the mostly likely, with 90% chance of between $960k and $1498k. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/46 "2013-10-16T02:15:43Z")
So, what did you think of alignment? And wait till you see tonight’s! ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/47 "2013-10-16T02:59:27Z")
I like! I used to play a claw stalker that was basically an anthropomorphic house cat with murderous tendencies (aka all of them), and I was always disappointed when I had rescue so and so, get so and so glowies, bla bla bla - I wanted to stab people! That’s the reason why I’m labeled a villain! I always played a more traditional hero, so I didn’t have too many problems there… Anyway, does this alignment thing fit into what kind of missions you get, or open up certain contacts etc? ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/48 "2013-10-16T03:30:31Z")
I just saw the last update. HO. LEE. SHIET. Where was this system in COV?! It sounds super ambitious though, I hope you guys can manage this level of content… ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/49 "2013-10-16T04:00:12Z")
_looks at update_ I’ll second **Tabby\_Cat** ’s HO. LEE. SHEIT! That’s friggin’ AMAZING! Can’t wait to see it! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/50 "2013-10-16T04:46:17Z")
Ooooh, we’ll have a Barbie Room for Android! ETA: please make it usable offline. I hate it when I can’t play in the train :mad: Android games should be train-playable! What can I say, back when CoH was subscription I spent more hours playing with costumes than in the game… must’a been making up for doll deprivation in infancy or something 😛 The alignment thing, likey. Dunnow about coming up with more names. Is there going to be some sort of “fame” thing too? NPCs could have different reactions to you based on fame + align + having certain achievements/associations. Example: I’m playing Marvel Heroes right now, both Xaviers and Avengers Tower are quest hubs, and the messages and quests you get are the same whether you play as Storm, Mr. IPayForAvengersTowerYouMorons, or the Punisher - that may make sense from a “oh, we just assume anybody playing here doesn’t know Spiderman from the Hulk” (an assumption which doesn’t itself make much sense) and from a “ugh, you want us to track all that?” point of view (never mind that group association is already tracked for equipment), but it doesn’t make in-universe sense. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/51 "2013-10-16T16:19:57Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > So, what did you think of alignment? And wait till you see tonight’s! If I’m understanding things correctly, there’s three “karma” axes that the game keeps track of automatically: Lawful vs Lawless, Violent vs Non-violent, Honorable vs Dishonorable. That’s pretty cool. I like that there’s more than one dimension, but not too many. And then we get to choose “alignment”. This is more like the faction you play for? The Update 17 mentions Hero, Villain, Scoundrel, Vigilante, and Complete Unknown. We’re supposed to be familiar with these, but I can’t say I am. But I do like that we can choose for ourselves our faction, and that it’s independent of the karma. (This is one thing SWTOR gets right, with Light Side vs Dark Side separate from Republic vs Empire.) As for Update 18, I’ll start with the negatives. I’m not a big fan of raids, but I realize there’s a substantial market for them so I don’t mind that you’ll do them. And while full voice-overs are cool, I don’t think they’re worth the cost (so I’m glad they’re on your back burner). I absolutely love your Paths! Those are perfect for a superhero game. Especially that they allow branching and crossovers. And I see you’re committing to alts being an end-game of sorts. May I beg one request: please, for the sanity of altaholics, allow us to name our characters whatever we want. I hated having to try a dozen different names, simply because another player already created a character with that name. Cryptic figured out how to let characters have duplicate names, you should too. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/52 "2013-10-16T16:23:52Z")
I’m interested in the violent vs. non-violent thing. When I played CoH, the team I was with often lamented (sort-of in an IC way, sort-of in an OOC way) that the only way to stop crime was to pound the tar out of people, including using the equivalent of flamethrowers on street punks. Is there going to be some-sort of ability to do missions without undue violence? Because that? Would ROCK. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/53 "2013-10-16T16:46:46Z")
> [@ArrMatey](#): > > I’m interested in the violent vs. non-violent thing. When I played CoH, the team I was with often lamented (sort-of in an IC way, sort-of in an OOC way) that the only way to stop crime was to pound the tar out of people, including using the equivalent of flamethrowers on street punks. Is there going to be some-sort of ability to do missions without undue violence? Because that? Would ROCK. I am already pondering investigation/infiltration missions. For one example: have a website that ostensibly belongs to the city planning department where you can look up floorplans (autofill your map) and find sneaky routes to avoid guards. Or missions where you can fight the mutant monstrosity, or your Mad Science character can solve a puzzle to create a serum that will reverse the mutation. (Or even have the “villain” controlled by a new strain of cordyceps, and the player can look up antifungal agents outside the game in order to select the correct drug to administer to free them.) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/54 "2013-10-21T20:43:50Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > > > Get on [www.cityoftitans.com](http://www.cityoftitans.com). > > Not that I have time to volunteer, but that website is on McAfee’s TrustedSource black list. Maybe nothing you can do about it, but maybe there’s something you can do. Good news, you’re off their no-go list and I can read your forums from work. (Ok, maybe not so good for my productivity, but I’m happy about it.) > [@Pleonast](#): > > But my crude statistics say $1183k is the mostly likely, with 90% chance of between $960k and $1498k. Daily increments have been low the past week. My best estimate is now $797k, with a 90% chance of between $641k and $1037k. Of course my estimates are poor, what with by current best estimate outside the 90% chance of my first one. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/55 "2013-10-22T01:35:04Z")
**E-Sabbath** , is there room for more in development? I worked with the Unreal engine doing levels for UT2004 a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/56 "2013-10-22T19:16:37Z")
Hey, **E-Sabbath** , I just read the last few updates… wrote to Olantern about his mention of a pirate captain called la Cisna. If that’s supposed to be Spanish, and rephrasing in a less-polite way what I told him, would it be so fucking difficult to pick an actual dictionary, or even google translate, instead of running roughshod over other people’s languages? Specially one for which I’m sure it’s terribly difficuly to find people who can speak it and might even know some grammar? Kthxby! (_El cisne_. It’s _el cisne_, regardless of gender, physical sex, sexual orientation, preferred position in bed, or frequency of bathroom visits) ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/57 "2013-10-25T03:35:00Z")
FNATGG! Woooooooooo It’s been so long, I’d forgotten about the one where the participants warped into someone mission. GAWD. Ahh… memories. Really, it’s the community that makes the game, and I hope this framework allows for really, really good community. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/58 "2013-10-25T14:14:32Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Ahh… memories. Really, it’s the community that makes the game, and I hope this framework allows for really, really good community. 🙂 Ditto, but one of the things that made it a good community was alert, responsive GMs who didn’t put up with any shit. If the gamerunners can’t afford a good team of full-time GMs, they shouldn’t even open the doors. It will turn into a noob-pounding gankfest like Eve. Nonstop griefing. The “community” will consist of 100% numbers players and those who think it’s fun to screw up everyone’s experience. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/59 "2013-10-28T19:19:33Z")
I’m late to the party, but I’ve just pledged. Here’s to the revival of a great game. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232/60 "2013-11-01T16:02:20Z")
The Kickstarter drive is down to the final weekend. There’s a lot more information available there, [40 updates](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/posts), which covers lore and gameplay. There’s also some good information available in other places. I found [this in-depth interview](http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/interviews/10706-Resurrecting-the-Superhero-MMO-City-of-Titans-Q-A). The Kickstart ends on Sunday night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phoenix-project-kickstarter-attention-city-of-heroes-fans/670232.md?page=4)