# the phrase 9 points, regardless of possession **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075 "2007-02-13T20:48:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![According\_to\_Pliny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@According\_to\_Pliny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/According_to_Pliny)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/1 "2007-02-13T20:48:01Z")
The other thread about possession and the law [[What does “possession is 9/10ths of the law” mean?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpossess910.htm) ] doesn’t seem to touch my question, so I state mine separately. In the UK, does “9 points” mean the same as US “point nine”, 0.9 ? And does it apply to things that are divided by twelve, such as pence in shillings, so that saying “11 points” would refer to 11 pence out of 12? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/2 "2007-02-13T22:58:34Z")
[QUOTE=According to Pliny] The other thread about possession and the law [[What does “possession is 9/10ths of the law” mean?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpossess910.htm) ] doesn’t seem to touch my question, so I state mine separately. In the UK, does “9 points” mean the same as US “point nine”, 0.9 ? And does it apply to things that are divided by twelve, such as pence in shillings, so that saying “11 points” would refer to 11 pence out of 12? [/QUOTE] No idea. Sorry. I’d expect a more robust response in GQ, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/3 "2007-02-13T22:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=According to Pliny] The other thread about possession and the law [[What does “possession is 9/10ths of the law” mean?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpossess910.htm) ] doesn’t seem to touch my question, so I state mine separately. In the UK, does “9 points” mean the same as US “point nine”, 0.9 ? And does it apply to things that are divided by twelve, such as pence in shillings, so that saying “11 points” would refer to 11 pence out of 12? [/QUOTE] No idea. Sorry. I’d expect a more robust response in GQ, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/4 "2007-02-14T03:26:55Z")
Your answer seems plenty robust to me! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/5 "2007-02-14T03:58:18Z")
I think not. I lived there for three years and never heard it used that way, and Australian english tends to mirror UK english. ---
**Author:** ![H3Knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@H3Knuckles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/H3Knuckles)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/6 "2007-02-14T06:39:20Z")
I have nothing of value to add, but I didn’t want to start my own thread for such an inane joke. Upon reading the article, the passage about the case of _Pierson v. Post_ made me think the following: “So kill-stealing has legal precedence in the US legal system, then?” 😛 Just a little gamer’s humor, that. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/7 "2007-02-14T12:43:28Z")
[QUOTE=According to Pliny] In the UK, does “9 points” mean the same as US “point nine”, 0.9 ? [/QUOTE] No. And, in any case, even if it did, that’s unlikely to be the origin of the phrase. As it happens, the earliest recorded examples of the phrase do date from about the time that decimal points began to get used in Britain. But that’s almost certainly just a coincidence. Firstly, it’s the sort of proverbial phrase that may well date back earlier than the first recorded examples. Secondly, one shouldn’t assume that decimal points were then sufficiently widely known for such an allusion to have been generally understood. Thirdly, and most importantly, decimal points weren’t called decimal ‘points’ until much later. [QUOTE=According to Pliny] And does it apply to things that are divided by twelve, such as pence in shillings, so that saying “11 points” would refer to 11 pence out of 12? [/QUOTE] The _OED_ suggests that ‘point’ meant ‘One tenth or (formerly) one twelfth’. But as their only evidence for that is the phrase itself that hardly proves very much. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/8 "2007-02-14T18:30:20Z")
[QUOTE=APB] The _OED_ suggests that ‘point’ meant ‘One tenth or (formerly) one twelfth’. But as their only evidence for that is the phrase itself that hardly proves very much. [/QUOTE] It proves all that there is to prove; “point” was once used (no longer, except in this one stock phrase) to mean one-tenth or one-twelfth. It can also mean 1/32 (of 360 degrees), 1/100 (of 100% interest, or of a jeweler’s carat), and a good many other things. But, no, it certainly has no connection with “decimal point”. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2007, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/9 "2007-02-21T06:55:30Z")
[QUOTE=According to Pliny] In the UK, does “9 points” mean the same as US “point nine”, 0.9 ? [/quote] Not really, but as John W. Kennedy notes, it has been used with an equivalent, though not equal meaning until very recently. Despite APB’s misgivings there are endless historical references confirming that point meant a 1/10th, 1/100th or 1/2th part. Indeed the point (1/100th of an inch) was the common unit of measuring precipitation until well into last century throughout the Britsih empire. > [@](#): > > And does it apply to things that are divided by twelve, such as pence in shillings, so that saying “11 points” would refer to 11 pence out of 12? No, but once again it has been used in an equivalent manner in many fileds aside from finance. In reality the more common archaic term for what you are describing was/is “part”. Hence something that is 9 parts water is 9/10 water, and something that is 11 parts water is 11/12 water. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2007, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phrase-9-points-regardless-of-possession/392075/10 "2007-02-21T12:07:05Z")
I’ve lived in the UK all my life and have never heard the phrase at all.