# The "Pit Bull" Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682 "2009-11-23T19:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/201 "2009-11-28T04:44:49Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > You know, honestly, this is pure and total ignorance, in the truest sense of the word. You have no idea what a Catahoula Cur or American Bulldog is capable of in terms of bite power. These dogs are made to control 500lb _wild goddamn boar_ with daggers for tusks. I have \*seen it. \* I’ve seen photos of a 350lb wild boar with a _cracked skull_ from a catch dog’s bite. For your information the Catahoula cur is a bay dog, not a catch dog used for razorback hunting. The catch dog breeds are mastiff in origin and the pit bull breed is commonly used. You really, truly, honestly have \*no idea. \* ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/202 "2009-11-28T04:52:20Z")
> [@independentminded](#): > > A poodle of any kind or size eating one’s foot? Sorry, I don’t buy it. Why? Just because we think of them as cutesy or froo froo, they’re still dogs. It’s not like the dog says, “Well, I’d like to attack, but I’m a poodle/lab/nice dog, so I’m going to hold back.” What makes pit bulls unstoppable killing machines while poodles are ladylike biters? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/203 "2009-11-28T04:55:19Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > So now you’re excusing this infantacide because the owner was negligent? Like the baby didn’t die, the dog didn’t cause “severe damage”? You asked for one example of proof that a small, companion breed dog was capable of causing death. I provided it. > > The funny thing is, I agree with you. Owner-negligence is at fault 100% of the time. The only difference between you and me is I don’t dismiss death caused by PC breeds as being irrelevant just because the dog is cute and cuddly. I never said the owner was negligent. The baby sitter was. I suppose you would say that any mother who works and leaves her child in the care of a baby sitter is negligent. Seeing as your responses are getting sillier and misinformed and you refuse to provide a news report of a cocker spaniel mauling, I’m done with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/204 "2009-11-28T05:01:37Z")
It is difficult for a pit owner to face up that the breed they like is the most dangerous dog . Then they are admitting they have invited a potential serious problem into their home. There are a lot of dogs and the chances are your dog will not eat you family. But the chances of a pit doing it are noticeably higher than any other breed and a lot more likely to be trouble than a poodle. It doesn’t get much simpler than that. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/205 "2009-11-28T05:52:22Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > This makes no sense whatsoever. And this shows how disconnected your arguments are from reality. Pollution, economy, and safety controls separated “sports cars” from those that were legal to drive. Same as laws banning ownership of pit bulls is from, er, owning pit bulls. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/206 "2009-11-28T06:06:26Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is difficult for a pit owner to face up that the breed they like is the most dangerous dog . Then they are admitting they have invited a potential serious problem into their home. Working with strangers, they are ALL like that. My cocker, which I trusted, would never bite anyone, but he bit and drew blood from a couple of people too stupid (note: both were my spawn, but were my dumber spawn, less attentive to what their parents taught them) to use one of the three tools to break up a dog fight: a broom, a water hose, or heavy boots. There is a point between “stupid” and “I told you not to do that.” ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/207 "2009-11-28T14:57:54Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > For your information the Catahoula cur is a bay dog, not a catch dog used for razorback hunting. The catch dog breeds are mastiff in origin and the pit bull breed is commonly used. > > You really, truly, honestly have \*no idea. \* /snicker Bay dogs don’t always just bay. Some catch, some bay, some do both. I sit on the board of directors for a national-based hog hunting group with a global membership. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/208 "2009-11-28T15:04:18Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And this shows how disconnected your arguments are from reality. Pollution, economy, and safety controls separated “sports cars” from those that were legal to drive. Same as laws banning ownership of pit bulls is from, er, owning pit bulls. …Wha…? Pollution controls stops people from driving cars capable of doing 200mph recklessly? A Ferrari isn’t a “sports car”? Again… you dodged my question. How do speed limit laws and stop signs not act to regulate car owner behavior and increase public safety? Although car insurance companies feel sports cars are more dangerous to drive (or else that sports car drivers are more likely to drive recklessly) and insure them accordingly, we do not ban them from the roads because reckless drivers are reckless drivers, regardless of what car they’re in. It’s far more effective to regulate all drivers’ behavior, and demand equally safe car handling, regardless of vehicle, because even a Geo Metro can kill someone if run off the road or through a red light. In the same vein, how do responsible dog ownership laws not act to regulate dog owner behavior and increase public safety? You didn’t answer the question–do you, or do you not believe banning pit bulls to be an effective step at increasing public safety and decreasing the incidence of severe dog bites? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/209 "2009-11-28T15:16:01Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > /snicker > . I sit on the board of directors for a national-based hog hunting group with a global membership. Oooooooooooo. I’m so impressed with your important position in such a blood sport. No wonder you are a defender of pit bulls. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/210 "2009-11-28T15:18:29Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I never said the owner was negligent. The baby sitter was. Uh, dude, that’s the point. The person in control of the dog was not in control of the dog. Instead of blaming the dog for viciously attacking and killing the child, you are blaming the human being involved for not doing their job and attending to dog and child. Owner (handler, whatever) negligence is always to blame. That you accept this as true for PC breeds but discard the correlation wherever it’s convenient to do so makes your argument laughable. Saying “100% of PC dog fatal attacks are to blame on the owners, but 100% of pit dog attacks are to blame on the dog” is not a contention supported by any reputable authority on the subject. Suggesting that PC breeds are no concern in the discussion of dog bites is also not a contention supported by any reputable authority on the subject, not the CDC, not the AVMA, not the [APSCA](http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/57/Dog-Bite-Prevention-.aspx), not the [American Association of Pediatrics](http://www.aap.org/advocacy/releases/dogbiteprevention.pdf)(PDF), not the [American Society of Plastic Surgeons](http://www.plasticsurgery.org/Media/Press_Releases/Take_a_Bite_Out_of_Dog_Attacks_Says_ASPS_AVMA_and_CDC.html) who repair something like 31,000 people for severe damage done, mostly by familiar pet dogs, every year. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/211 "2009-11-28T15:19:49Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > How many times would you have to see it before it would be enough to satisfy you? “More than what we see now” is pretty undefined. In my personal experience, every case of serious dog aggression I’ve seen in my life involved a pit bull aggressor. I’d expect to hear of a serious incident per day in my own city, if the amount of people with pit’s in my own area is anything to go by. I’ve had my own dog attacked by a pit and I’m still not reacting as hysterical about them as some in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/212 "2009-11-28T15:20:50Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Oooooooooooo. I’m so impressed with your important position in such a blood sport. > > No wonder you are a defender of pit bulls. I wasn’t asking you to be impressed, though your response tells me a whoooooooooole lot about you. No wonder you are a hater of pit bulls. The point of this is, I know whereof I speak when it comes to discussing the bite power and ferocious tenacity of working breed dogs. You do not. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/213 "2009-11-28T15:26:32Z")
Post #211 was sponsored by the word “own”. ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/214 "2009-11-28T19:42:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Why? Just because we think of them as cutesy or froo froo, they’re still dogs. It’s not like the dog says, “Well, I’d like to attack, but I’m a poodle/lab/nice dog, so I’m going to hold back.” What makes pit bulls unstoppable killing machines while poodles are ladylike biters? I still stand by my position that poodles and labs do far less damage than pitbulls. ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/215 "2009-11-28T19:47:36Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Please visit the American Temperament Test Society at [atts.com](http://atts.com) for a full range of data on all AKC recognized breeds. Samples sizes of the different breeds vary. > > American Pit Bull Terriers have a ‘pass rate’ (which means the dog is determined to be tempermentally sound, no danger to humans and suitable for breeding or adoption) of 85%, higher than the average pass rate of all breeds of 81%. Pitbulls often give the appearance of being calm, which makes these dogs all the more dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/216 "2009-11-28T19:51:24Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What it distills down to is that people who should not have dogs gravitate toward pits. I am sure a pit kept by responsible people are pretty safe. But those are not the dogs we run into. The ones we encounter are loose and poorly trained, perhaps trained to fight. > I have personally had 6 encounters with loose pits while I was walking my beagle. One time I dropped my dog into a trash can to keep him from a pit. Each and every time ,the owner ran up and said "he never did that before’. It is only big dogs that people let run loose in the park. No body opens their car door and lets their Peke run loose. They are always on leashes. If it means that the owners are at fault and pits are pure as the driven snow, it does not matter. The fact is pits we encounter in life are apt to be dangerous. They are always scary. They are not under control. That is the fact I deal with. > I guess the next time a loose pit comes running up to me .I will just scratch it on the head. After all, they are just like any other dog. I have to assume it just a sweet little puppy. The phrases “he never did that before”, or “She/he was so gentle. I didn’t expect that”, are common stock excuses that pitbull owners give when their dog attacks just out of the blue, or maybe turns on an owner, or injures/kills another person’s pet, in an unprovoked attack. All too often, pitbull owners aren’t willing to face up to the fact that there really is something in the dog’s breeding, DNA, physique and temperament that makes them more prone to attack and do much more damage than many, if not most other dogs. I think if the breeding of pitbulls were halted altogether, it would be far better. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/217 "2009-11-28T20:44:19Z")
Part of the problem is the kind of person the pit appeals to. When I am walking my dogs in the park and I see a biker picnic, I am pretty sure there will be a pit there and he wont be restrained. That is through many encounters. So I just walk a big circle around that area. In my experience, pit owners like to demonstrate the power they think they have over the dog. It just does not work out that way. Your fantasy over controlling a pit becomes my problem. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/218 "2009-11-28T21:06:43Z")
> [@independentminded](#): > > The phrases “he never did that before”, or “She/he was so gentle. I didn’t expect that”, are common stock excuses that pitbull owners give when their dog attacks just out of the blue, or maybe turns on an owner, or injures/kills another person’s pet, in an unprovoked attack. All too often, pitbull owners aren’t willing to face up to the fact that there really is something in the dog’s breeding, DNA, physique and temperament that makes them more prone to attack and do much more damage than many, if not most other dogs. I think if the breeding of pitbulls were halted altogether, it would be far better. I’ve heard that excuse from many dog owners but not the pit bull owners. Their dogs always behave quite well. And it’s pit bull (two words). Stop misspellling it. I have to ask though why you (and other posters) are so invested in believing these urban legends? IMHO, you’ve been shown overwhelming evidence that pit bulls aren’t the killing machines the media likes to portray them as yet you persist in your beliefs and worse yet, have nothing other than spectral evidence to back up your assertions. In this thread, I’ve seen people claim pit bulls don’t growl or bark like other dogs, are much stronger than dogs twice their size, have special jaws and musculature that makes their grip far deadlier than larger dogs and that they suddenly snap because of some time bomb in their genetics. All of these things defy physics and biology but you still want to believe, why? Vicki Hearne makes a connection between the moral panic of pit bulls with classism and racism. In this day and age, it’s difficult to be outwardly racist, to say, for example, “I don’t like black people” but it is very easy and very acceptable to say “I don’t like those dogs, they’re scary and aggressive and will kill you as much as look at you.” When I see posters such as yourself (and others) insist that pit bulls are capable of miraculous feats of strength and biology, I have to think she’s correct and really you’re just projecting your fears and dislikes of the (perceived) owner onto the dog. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/219 "2009-11-28T21:17:14Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > Vicki Hearne makes a connection between the moral panic of pit bulls with classism and racism. In this day and age, it’s difficult to be outwardly racist, to say, for example, “I don’t like black people” but it is very easy and very acceptable to say “I don’t like those dogs, they’re scary and aggressive and will kill you as much as look at you.” > > When I see posters such as yourself (and others) insist that pit bulls are capable of miraculous feats of strength and biology, I have to think she’s correct and really you’re just projecting your fears and dislikes of the (perceived) owner onto the dog. And the shark gets marvelously, spectacularly jumped. Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/220 "2009-11-28T21:36:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And the shark gets marvelously, spectacularly jumped. > > Unbelievable. No. I believe it’s a valid point. This is a post from gonzomax that appeared while I was posting. [QUOTE=gonzomax] Part of the problem is the kind of person the pit appeals to. When I am walking my dogs in the park and I see a biker picnic, I am pretty sure there will be a pit there and he wont be restrained. That is through many encounters. So I just walk a big circle around that area. In my experience, pit owners like to demonstrate the power they think they have over the dog. It just does not work out that way. Your fantasy over controlling a pit becomes my problem. [/QUOTE] He admits it. Pits appeal to scary people (or so he claims). And bikers are scary. And sometimes they have scary picnics. Worse yet, scary bikers sometimes have scary picnics and bring their scary dogs with them! So the best thing to do is avoid the area because the scary bikers are probably going to sic their scary dogs on him. It’s all rather pathetic. If you disagree, would you please expand rather than trotting out some tired internet cliche? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682.md?page=12)