# The "Pit Bull" Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682 "2009-11-23T19:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/221 "2009-11-28T21:51:36Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > No. I believe it’s a valid point. > > This is a post from gonzomax that appeared while I was posting. > > He admits it. Pits appeal to scary people (or so he claims). And bikers are scary. And sometimes they have scary picnics. Worse yet, scary bikers sometimes have scary picnics and bring their scary dogs with them! So the best thing to do is avoid the area because the scary bikers are probably going to sic their scary dogs on him. > > It’s all rather pathetic. > > If you disagree, would you please expand rather than trotting out some tired internet cliche? To inject racism into a debate about whether some dog breeds are more dangerous than others is unfortunate. It’s a sure way to derail the real debate. It is clear from this and other threads, that there are some people that will turn themselves inside out to come to the conclusion that pit bulls are no more dangerous than a cocker spaniel. That is a ridiculous position for any sentient person. Just ask yourself, if you were going to be trapped in an alley with a really angry dog that was going to attack you, would you prefer it to be a pit bull or a cocker spaniel? Are pit bulls evil? No. Can they be loving docile pets? Yes. The problem is that while any dog can go off one day—reasonably or not—when pit bulls do it it all too often leads to a headline and a funeral. And anyone who doesn’t give a group with loose pit bulls a wide berth is not too bright. ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/222 "2009-11-28T21:56:17Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > I’ve heard that excuse from many dog owners but not the pit bull owners. Their dogs always behave quite well. And it’s pit bull (two words). Stop misspellling it. > > I have to ask though why you (and other posters) are so invested in believing these urban legends? IMHO, you’ve been shown overwhelming evidence that pit bulls aren’t the killing machines the media likes to portray them as yet you persist in your beliefs and worse yet, have nothing other than spectral evidence to back up your assertions. > > In this thread, I’ve seen people claim pit bulls don’t growl or bark like other dogs, are much stronger than dogs twice their size, have special jaws and musculature that makes their grip far deadlier than larger dogs and that they suddenly snap because of some time bomb in their genetics. > > All of these things defy physics and biology but you still want to believe, why? > > Vicki Hearne makes a connection between the moral panic of pit bulls with classism and racism. In this day and age, it’s difficult to be outwardly racist, to say, for example, “I don’t like black people” but it is very easy and very acceptable to say “I don’t like those dogs, they’re scary and aggressive and will kill you as much as look at you.” > > When I see posters such as yourself (and others) insist that pit bulls are capable of miraculous feats of strength and biology, I have to think she’s correct and really you’re just projecting your fears and dislikes of the (perceived) owner onto the dog. I disagree with you too, valleyofthedolls. I think that Vicki Hearne’s connection between the moral concern/panic over pit bulls and classicsm and/or racism is a bunch of baloney, and I refuse to buy into it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/223 "2009-11-28T22:15:16Z")
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**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/224 "2009-11-28T22:16:42Z")
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**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/225 "2009-11-28T22:25:24Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > …Wha…? Pollution controls stops people from driving cars capable of doing 200mph recklessly? A Ferrari isn’t a “sports car”? > > Again… you dodged my question. How do speed limit laws and stop signs not act to regulate car owner behavior and increase public safety? Although car insurance companies feel sports cars are more dangerous to drive (or else that sports car drivers are more likely to drive recklessly) and insure them accordingly, we do not ban them from the roads because reckless drivers are reckless drivers, regardless of what car they’re in. It’s far more effective to regulate all drivers’ behavior, and demand equally safe car handling, regardless of vehicle, because even a Geo Metro can kill someone if run off the road or through a red light. > > In the same vein, how do responsible dog ownership laws not act to regulate dog owner behavior and increase public safety? You didn’t answer the question–do you, or do you not believe banning pit bulls to be an effective step at increasing public safety and decreasing the incidence of severe dog bites? Comparing regulating driving behaviour with regulating and controlling pit bulls??!? **That’s** the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard yet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/226 "2009-11-28T22:25:44Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > I wasn’t asking you to be impressed, though your response tells me a whoooooooooole lot about you. No wonder you are a hater of pit bulls. > > The point of this is, I know whereof I speak when it comes to discussing the bite power and ferocious tenacity of working breed dogs. You do not. Come on over to the pit. You can’t miss it . ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/227 "2009-11-28T22:35:40Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > You know, honestly, this is pure and total ignorance, in the truest sense of the word. You have no idea what a Catahoula Cur or American Bulldog is capable of in terms of bite power. These dogs are made to control 500lb _wild goddamn boar_ with daggers for tusks. I have \*seen it. \* I’ve seen photos of a 350lb wild boar with a _cracked skull_ from a catch dog’s bite. You really, truly, honestly have \*no idea. \* > > Can you give me any even… _remotely plausible explanation_ for why a 35-45lb dog with the same physique, skull and jaw structure, same musculature, and same breeding background for battle-to-the-death would be phenomenally more powerful than any of the dogs whose photos I linked to, which are _twice the size_? The **regular** American Bulldog (which is not to be confused with a Pitt Bull, btw) was originally bred as a **work** dog, **not** a fighting dog. The American Bulldog has often been used to herd cattle and sheep, to plough and till the ground, and to corkscrew one to to the ground who failed to catch up to the rest of the herd. Nowadays, particularly in the rural South, machines are used to herd sheep, cattle, etc. Then, when somebody decided to cross-breed the regular American Bulldog with various terriers, that created the pit bull, which has a much tougher, more muscular jaw than the American Bull Dog. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/228 "2009-11-28T22:39:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > To inject racism into a debate about whether some dog breeds are more dangerous than others is unfortunate. It’s a sure way to derail the real debate. It is clear from this and other threads, that there are some people that will turn themselves inside out to come to the conclusion that pit bulls are no more dangerous than a cocker spaniel. That is a ridiculous position for any sentient person. Just ask yourself, if you were going to be trapped in an alley with a really angry dog that was going to attack you, would you prefer it to be a pit bull or a cocker spaniel? I’ve mentioned racism and classism because I believe it underlines every myth I’ve ever read about pit bulls. I don’t believe it derails “the real debate” because it is part of the debate. Understanding why a lie happens as well as why something is a lie is part of fighting ignorance. And yes, I believe, as a general rule, pit bulls are safer than cocker spaniels. They were bred to be human friendly. Their entire history speaks to their soundess around humans. That you choose to ignore this in favor of media sensationalism, urban legends and faulty generalizations says more about you than anything else. And if I were trapped in an alley and got to choose which viscious dog was going to bite me, I would prefer the smallest dog there is. So, I’d take a yorkshire terrier over a cocker spaniel over a pit bull over a labrador retriever over a german shepherd over a rottweiler over a bull mastiff over a st. bernard over a irish wolfhound over an english mastiff. This is common sense. What is not common sense is attributing mythic feats of strength to dogs weighing, at most, 60lbs. [QUOTE=independantminded] I disagree with you too, valleyofthedolls. I think that Vicki Hearne’s connection between the moral concern/panic over pit bulls and classicsm and/or racism is a bunch of baloney, and I refuse to buy into it. [/QUOTE] Why do you refuse to buy into it? There must be some reason why you prefer to believe in urban legends instead of factual evidence? ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/229 "2009-11-28T23:21:39Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > I’ve mentioned racism and classism because I believe it underlines every myth I’ve ever read about pit bulls. I don’t believe it derails “the real debate” because it is part of the debate. Understanding why a lie happens as well as why something is a lie is part of fighting ignorance. > > And yes, I believe, as a general rule, pit bulls are safer than cocker spaniels. They were bred to be human friendly. Their entire history speaks to their soundess around humans. That you choose to ignore this in favor of media sensationalism, urban legends and faulty generalizations says more about you than anything else. > > And if I were trapped in an alley and got to choose which viscious dog was going to bite me, I would prefer the smallest dog there is. > > So, I’d take a yorkshire terrier over a cocker spaniel over a pit bull over a labrador retriever over a german shepherd over a rottweiler over a bull mastiff over a st. bernard over a irish wolfhound over an english mastiff. This is common sense. What is not common sense is attributing mythic feats of strength to dogs weighing, at most, 60lbs. > > Why do you refuse to buy into it? There must be some reason why you prefer to believe in urban legends instead of factual evidence? There must be a reason why you buy into Vicki Hearne’s connection between so-called prejudice against pitbulls and classism and racism. I don’t see what I say as urban legend, because I’ve talked to a number of pit bull owners and ex-pit owners who’ve either gotten rid of their pit bulls because they’ve proven to be too much trouble, or have decided not to get any more pit bulls if the ones they have go. Racism and classism are directed against human beings, not pitbulls. That’s why I refuse to buy into Vicki Hearne’s connection. ---
**Author:** ![independentminded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed8c4c/32.png) [@independentminded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/independentminded)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/230 "2009-11-28T23:24:49Z")
This: > [@rhubarbarin](#): > > My best friend’s 40-lb pit can’t get though bones half the size my 80-lb German Shepherd/Lab can. And what better test is there than who can decimate a goat’s thigh bone and tear off the biggest mouthfuls of muscle? I find hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/231 "2009-11-29T00:37:05Z")
> [@independentminded](#): > > There must be a reason why you buy into Vicki Hearne’s connection between so-called prejudice against pitbulls and classism and racism. I don’t see what I say as urban legend, because I’ve talked to a number of pit bull owners and ex-pit owners who’ve either gotten rid of their pit bulls because they’ve proven to be too much trouble, or have decided not to get any more pit bulls if the ones they have go. I buy into because Hearne makes a good argument for it with documentation I can follow. I buy into because it explains why people like you are so desperate to believe pit bulls are killing machines despite all availalable evidence to the contrary. I buy into it because I don’t believe an availability heuristic proves anything other than its believer is completely out of touch with reality. I buy into it because the media always seems to mention race and class when discussing pit bulls. I buy into it because people like gonzomax think their owners are scary and to be avoided. And I buy into it because you would rather believe a 40lb dog is more capable of tearing through a goat’s thigh bone than an 80lb dog. [QUOTE=independentminded] Racism and classism are directed against human beings, not pitbulls. That’s why I refuse to buy into Vicki Hearne’s connection. [/QUOTE] Is this a whoosh? That was exactly my point. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/232 "2009-11-29T00:46:25Z")
I feel no “racist” feeling about any dog. I am sure that 99 percent of pits will not eat their owners. But they can be life threateningly dangerous in the wrong circumstances. My beagles could under the right conditions nip someone. They wont have to call the police to empty a revolver into it to make it stop though. They wont keep coming and coming no matter how badly they have been struck. It is not the same as other dogs. That is the reality. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/233 "2009-11-29T16:55:54Z")
> [@independentminded](#): > > This: > > I find hard to believe. Words fail me. Will a picture suffice? [http://adoptananimal.org/images/pets/ziggy\_miller.jpg](http://adoptananimal.org/images/pets/ziggy_miller.jpg) These aren’t our dogs, but that’s about the size difference between them (Sonny is a little smaller and much thinner than that pit). As you can see, the Shepherd’s head and jaws are about twice the size of the pit’s. Also, see the big jaw muscles (made more visible with extra fur and skin, but still clearly larger in proportion to the head than the pit’s) under the ears of the Shepherd? Additionally, a shepherd’s teeth are much longer and larger, so their ability to penetrate muscle and bone with one bite is much greater. I mean, really. You people are utterly deluded. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/234 "2009-11-29T18:26:37Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Words fail me. Will a picture suffice? [http://adoptananimal.org/images/pets/ziggy\_miller.jpg](http://adoptananimal.org/images/pets/ziggy_miller.jpg) > > These aren’t our dogs, but that’s about the size difference between them (Sonny is a little smaller and much thinner than that pit). As you can see, the Shepherd’s head and jaws are about twice the size of the pit’s. Also, see the big jaw muscles (made more visible with extra fur and skin, but still clearly larger in proportion to the head than the pit’s) under the ears of the Shepherd? Additionally, a shepherd’s teeth are much longer and larger, so their ability to penetrate muscle and bone with one bite is much greater. > > I mean, really. You people are utterly deluded. Apparent size isn’t everything. Remove the hair skin including the subcutaneous layer and the size difference becomes less dramatic. Pit bulls have less hair, skin and body fat. You’d think they were body builders. What should be obvious however is that the distance from the joint of the jaw to the gripping canines at the front of the muzzle for the German Shepherd is more than twice the distance that exists for the pit bull. Using the lever principle in mechanics, means that the German Shephard’s potential for gripping bite pressure is reduced by more than half that of the pit bull. Size is important for strength , but not always relevant. it doesn’t seem to be much of a factor in weight lifting for humans so why for dogs. However the size does become relevant when a prey tries to overcome the grip of a predator by shaking him off. That is why these pit bulls were bred to act and look the way they do. They can clamp onto a bull’s nose and hang on. No way a GSD could do that. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/235 "2009-11-29T19:55:02Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Apparent size isn’t everything. > > Remove the hair skin including the subcutaneous layer and the size difference becomes less dramatic. Pit bulls have less hair, skin and body fat. You’d think they were body builders. > > What should be obvious however is that the distance from the joint of the jaw to the gripping canines at the front of the muzzle for the German Shepherd is more than twice the distance that exists for the pit bull. Using the lever principle in mechanics, means that the German Shephard’s potential for gripping bite pressure is reduced by more than half that of the pit bull. > > Size is important for strength , but not always relevant. it doesn’t seem to be much of a factor in weight lifting for humans so why for dogs. However the size does become relevant when a prey tries to overcome the grip of a predator by shaking him off. > > That is why these pit bulls were bred to act and look the way they do. They can clamp onto a bull’s nose and hang on. > > No way a GSD could do that. None of this is true. A pit bull’s jaw structure is the same as any other dog. Please provide some sort of cite that proves their morphology is different than that of other canines. And bite strength is related to size. If you disagree, then provide a cite and not just your biased and unprofessional opinion. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/236 "2009-11-29T20:54:07Z")
I don’t think pits have a greater bite pressure than other dogs. There are a few that are worse. It is their attitude that differentiates them. It is that they don’t quit. They fight, and fight and fight while taking huge injuries. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/237 "2009-11-29T22:45:59Z")
> [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > None of this is true. > > A pit bull’s jaw structure is the same as any other dog. Please provide some sort of cite that proves their morphology is different than that of other canines. Muzzle length my dear, muzzle length. Comprehende? > [@](#): > > And bite strength is related to size. If you disagree, then provide a cite and not just your biased and unprofessional opinion. Read my post again ! Learn something For Christ’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/238 "2009-11-29T23:52:52Z")
I’ll offer just one more comment, as the standards of GD seem to cry out for a reality check. Then I think I’ll drop it, as this has become tedious. **NajaNivea** , you base your assertions on two primary foundations—your own experience, and some statements by CDC and AVMA which you continue to accuse me of not reading. Your own experience must be completely anecdotal, else you would have offered your own controlled studies as cites. Lacking such scientific background, it seems that you have failed to qualify yourself as an expert. Note that your position on a board having a special relationship with the breed you so vigorously defend does nothing to support your assertions. By analogy, one’s defense of, say, wildcat oil drillers might reasonably be questioned if one were simultaneously serving on an oil drillers’ board. Let us therefore dismiss your personal anecdotes as we dismiss others without recognized authority. As for the statements you quote \* ad nauseum\*, no, I do not claim to be “smarter” than CDC or AVMA. But as a professional myself, I recognize something about the way professional associations work. I have already pointed out that the papers from which you draw your favorite quotes are neither “scientific studies” nor are they “peer review” of anything, including Clifton. They are position papers of the organizations, nothing more, nothing less. The positions they espouse are based upon those organizations’ own review of the factual information available, as well as internal and external politics specific to those organizations. The positions are impacted by the relationship between these organizations and various other stakeholders such as animal owners, breeders, law enforcement (“animal control”) agencies, humane organizations, animal rights activists, and a host of others. They attempt to provide both information and guidance for a diversity of possible audiences, to be put to a variety of possible uses. They do not condemn any specific breed despite agitation from some fronts for such an action. But neither do they declare that breed absolutely, positively cannot have any influence on biting behavior. Wright himself, in the citation upon which they and you rely so heavily (that “7” to which I have linked already) clearly accepts breed as _ **one among many** _ factors. (In his case, at at the time of his article, the GSD topped the list and Pit Bulls had been banned in the study area for the two previous years.) Instead they offer caveats to the data available, and declare difficulty of analysis as I have outlined upthread. They are, as is typical of position papers from national organizations, **political statements** , not scientific treatises. Even this statement (below), which you offer as a clincher to your assertions, is itself merely an assertion that the authors do not back up with data or analysis: > [@](#): > > “There are several reasons why it is not possible to calculate a bite rate for a breed or to compare rates between breeds.” We’ve iterated the caveats repeatedly, and still this is not, as you declare it, a statement that “no differences exist” but is instead merely emphasizing their observations on the current state of available statistics and analysis. They are clearly offering what modern parlance would term “a nuanced position”. This is often the politically expedient choice. I am sorry that you cannot accept such a nuanced position yourself. The problem of dog bites is a serious one, and it is influenced by many human factors including history, fad, fashion, and the politics of animal rights plus doggie factors including but not limited to dog breeds, all woven together in a complex feedback system. Breed bans themselves will clearly do little to address let alone correct the problem. But neither will an adamant insistence that breeds (as they exist right now) have no effect on the problem at all. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/239 "2009-11-30T02:56:37Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Apparent size isn’t everything. > > Remove the hair skin including the subcutaneous layer and the size difference becomes less dramatic. Pit bulls have less hair, skin and body fat. You’d think they were body builders. > > What should be obvious however is that the distance from the joint of the jaw to the gripping canines at the front of the muzzle for the German Shepherd is more than twice the distance that exists for the pit bull. Using the lever principle in mechanics, means that the German Shephard’s potential for gripping bite pressure is reduced by more than half that of the pit bull. > > Size is important for strength , but not always relevant. it doesn’t seem to be much of a factor in weight lifting for humans so why for dogs. However the size does become relevant when a prey tries to overcome the grip of a predator by shaking him off. > > That is why these pit bulls were bred to act and look the way they do. They can clamp onto a bull’s nose and hang on. > > No way a GSD could do that. Of course a GSD could hang onto the nose of a bull. One is more than capable of killing a cow, and the best way to do that is to latch on to the throat or nose in order to suffocate the animal. This is a killing strategy used by wolves, dogs, and coyotes. It’s not a pit-specific trait that was selected for. It doesn’t seem like you know or understand anything about canines. Size, more specifically weight, (nothing apparent about it) is the basis of strength in all animals. This is why there are very strict weight classes in all human sports that involve one-on-one conflict, and _ **in dog fighting as well.** _ German Shepherd are the world’s leading military and police dog, bred and trained to bite and hold potentially armed, violent criminals or enemy combatants. I can assure you their biting and holding capabilities are prodigious. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682/240 "2009-11-30T03:02:33Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Muzzle length my dear, muzzle length. Comprehende? If you really believe that the strength of a bite is stronger with shorter jaws, please explain how crocodiles and alligators can clamp onto and hold live, struggling animals up to twice their size for as long as it takes to drown them and rip them into chunks. Animals are not simple levers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pit-bull-myth/518682.md?page=13)