# The pitting of a bigoted Jew **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771 "2009-02-28T06:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/21 "2009-02-28T22:52:15Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > What irked me was not his position re pork in Israeli restaurants, but that he had to actually sit in one to have a job interview. He seemed outraged by the whole thing. Does he not want a job? He can’t just have water? He could always just bring a bottle of water or politely refuse to eat (potentially problematic and/or rude given that he agreed to meet there in the first place) or ask to have the venue changed (not on the basis of his religious practices, unless he wants to make a big deal about this). He seems to be resigned to his Diet Coke (yuck), so really–what is the big deal? A. Not outraged, irritated. B. The thing is, over there they eat during job interviews. It’s just what’s done. Also, I was pretty sure that **Shinna** is female. Am I incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/22 "2009-02-28T23:00:08Z")
Why, you wanna pork her? Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/23 "2009-03-01T00:50:28Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Pork is optional, amigo. I’m perfectly free to eat the stuff whenever the fancy strikes me, and I can’t remember the last time I did. This is really no different, in fact, than dog or horse being banned in America. It’s culturally taboo for us to eat those animals. Well, in all fairness, I wasn’t talking about whether Jews and Muslims may eat pork, but rather that the rest of us may and most do. You are aware, of course, that if a Jewish person is starving, he or she may not refuse pork for religious reasons. And many Jews do not keep kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/24 "2009-03-01T01:01:48Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Pork is optional, amigo. I’m perfectly free to eat the stuff whenever the fancy strikes me, and I can’t remember the last time I did. This is really no different, in fact, than dog or horse being banned in America. It’s culturally taboo for us to eat those animals. Is it really _illegal_ for those meats to be eaten in America, though? If it is, I do object to that, on the grounds that people should be able to put anything into their bodies they want, as long as they don’t hurt other people while doing it. > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > This is how I read it, as well. He’s saying that it’s too bad that it’s so easy to find, because that shows how many Jews in Israel are non-observant. I definitely didn’t read it to imply that people should be _compelled_ to keep kosher. That’s how I saw it. I mean, I find it “unfortunate” that so many Americans participate in casual sex, but that doesn’t mean I think it should be against the law. And I don’t think **Shinna Minna Ma** thinks pork should be against the law, either. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/25 "2009-03-01T01:23:41Z")
If only all bigotry were as mild as this, the world would be darn near utopian. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/26 "2009-03-01T01:43:37Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Well, in all fairness, I wasn’t talking about whether Jews and Muslims may eat pork, but rather that the rest of us may and most do. You are aware, of course, that if a Jewish person is starving, he or she may not refuse pork for religious reasons. And many Jews do not keep kosher. Huh? It’s almost like you’re responding to someone else and quoted me on accident. This doesn’t make any sense. > [@Vox\_Imperatoris](#): > > Is it really _illegal_ for those meats to be eaten in America, though? If it is, I do object to that, on the grounds that people should be able to put anything into their bodies they want, as long as they don’t hurt other people while doing it. I don’t really know, but it’s absolutely socially taboo. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/27 "2009-03-01T01:53:54Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I don’t really know, but it’s absolutely socially taboo. Oh, obviously, and I don’t have any problem with that besides it being a bit silly. (Although I have never tried either horse or dog, so they might be absolutely awful to eat, for all I know.) Valete, Vox Imperatoris ETA: As to the social taboo thing, I do remember my fifth grade history teacher urging us to sign some kind of petition against a government bill that would sell excess horses on some reserve to France as food. (Or maybe that wasn’t the exact situation; I only vaguely remember it, but it did involve horses being sold to France by the government.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/28 "2009-03-01T01:56:01Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I don’t see it. **Shinna Minna Ma** apparently just wishes that all Jews were more observant. That’s what it looked like to me, too – that it’s unfortunate so many Jews outside Jerusalem aren’t keeping kosher, as evidenced by the easy availability of pork. Since the largest religious minority in Israel ALSO doesn’t traditionally eat pork, Shinna Minna Ma’s comment might even have been meant to indicate a more general disappointment in lack of religious observance. Even if the comment were meant to indicate disapproval of anyone ever eating pork, it’s about as mild as such disapproval can be. “It’s unfortunate that people do things that my religion forbids” is nowhere near in the same league as “Things that my religion forbids should be outlawed”, “People who do things that my religion forbids are sick/evil”, or other genuinely bigoted statements. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/29 "2009-03-01T07:14:16Z")
I dunno, the post that pissed me off (in a very very mild way … I just can’t get that outraged about any of this) wasn’t the one linked in the OP, it was **Shinna** ’s subsequent response to questions about that post: > [@](#): > > Because I’m one of those old fashioned types who decries the lack of Judiasm in Israel. It is supposed to be a “Jewish” state, after all. I would prefer not having something so obviously not kosher being so available. So to me it seems that it’s not just that she wants Jews to be more observant – she “decries the lack of Judiaism,” i.e. the existence of non-Jews. She doesn’t want the goyishes or their nasty pork anywhere in the whole freakin’ country. To me, a Jew BTW, that seems extraordinarily fucked up. And frankly the whole breast-beating over the non-kosher coffee shop was stupid considering the whole issue could’ve been resolved in three seconds. “Great, Ms. Shinna, let’s have lunch at O’Marra’s Pork ‘n’ Cheese ‘n’ Lobster Emporium, okay? It’s over on Judah ben Shlomo Street --” “Oh I’m sorry, Mr. Goyerson, but would it be possible to meet at a kosher restaurant?” “Oh! Of course! Sorry, I didn’t even realize. It’s just O’Marra’s has an amazing latte, so I go there all the time. No problem, let’s make it Hebie Goldstonowitz’s instead, it’s right next door.” “Great, thanks!” The end. Instead of simply addressing what was almost certainly just an oversight, she starts rending her garments. Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/30 "2009-03-01T08:40:42Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I don’t really know, but it’s absolutely socially taboo. The difference, of course, is that pork obviously isn’t _that_ taboo since there seems to be a thriving market for it. If a Mormon came on here and said “unfortunately, coffee is available at any 7-11” we’d laugh our asses off at them. If they said something like “It’s unfortunate that so many Mormons slam down Diet Cokes in secret” we’d still laugh at then. If a Muslim came on here and started talking shit about non-Halal restaurants in Saudia Arabia, we’d probably get outright pissed. Religious bigotry is bigotry, and mild or not I think its lame in all of it’s forms, even when Israel is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/31 "2009-03-01T08:55:12Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The difference, of course, is that pork obviously isn’t _that_ taboo since there seems to be a thriving market for it. > > If a Mormon came on here and said “unfortunately, coffee is available at any 7-11” we’d laugh our asses off at them. If they said something like “It’s unfortunate that so many Mormons slam down Diet Cokes in secret” we’d still laugh at then. > > If a Muslim came on here and started talking shit about non-Halal restaurants in Saudia Arabia, we’d probably get outright pissed. > > Religious bigotry is bigotry, and mild or not I think its lame in all of it’s forms, even when Israel is involved. Speak for yourself. I would not be outraged by that, and it is not bigotry, even “mild bigotry” unless you expand the term “bigotry” to include any religious tenet. I mean, do you really think a Mormon saying, “Don’t drink coffee,” is a _bigot_? Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/32 "2009-03-01T09:44:14Z")
[quote=“Vox\_Imperatoris, post:31, topic:487771”] I mean, do you really think a Mormon saying, “Don’t drink coffee,” is a _bigot_?/QUOTE] Well, actually, yeah. If he wants to give me shit because I’m not following what he perceives as his religious obligation, yeah. And if he tries to tell me it’s only because we are in Utah, double yeah. You deal with your religious obligations and I’ll deal with mine, thanks. And unless I’m actually inside your church, location has nothing to do with respecting other people and their choices. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/33 "2009-03-01T09:58:24Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > That’s the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard this week that wasn’t from a prominent Republican. How do you know he’s not a prominent Republican? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/34 "2009-03-01T10:44:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Well, actually, yeah. If he wants to give me shit because I’m not following what he perceives as his religious obligation, yeah. And if he tries to tell me it’s only because we are in Utah, double yeah. You deal with your religious obligations and I’ll deal with mine, thanks. And unless I’m actually inside your church, location has nothing to do with respecting other people and their choices. If he actually said it to your face uninvited, yeah, that would be rude. And if the person being pitted went up the guy and got outraged about it being a non-kosher place, that would also be rude, but not bigoted. But that is not the case here. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/35 "2009-03-01T13:59:16Z")
I was told off in TelAviv at a road side cafe by the owner for drinking milk with a Burger,apparently he would be fined by his Rabbi. I’m nominally Christian but it didn’t bother me as I have travelled a fair amount and am a great believer in "When in Rome"etc. I dont point my feet at the Buddha in Thailand,use my left to shake hands in Oman or say Shweihund in Germany. Back in England I try not to eat dogs. Its no big deal figuring your behaviour to the country you’re in and if it is then stay at home. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/36 "2009-03-01T15:04:59Z")
Yeah, but presumably these are not restaurants for bacon loving tourists, but rather restaurants whose customers are primarily Israeli. I’d gladly observe kosher laws if I were a tourist. But if I was Israeli who for whatever reason didn’t keep kosher, I’d certainly roll my eyes at anyone who says it’s “unfortunate” that I can buy a ham sandwich for lunch. FWIW this goes the other way, too. I get equally annoyed by people who call keeping kosher “an outdated custom” or whatever. My religion is mine, yours is yours. My lunch is mine, yours is yours. It’s really a personal thing. I’ll end with a challenge: Can anyone give me a good reason why you way say the availability of pork is “unfortunate” that doesn’t essentially boil down to “my religion/culture is better than yours.” Is there a way to interpret this as respectful of people with different beliefs and cultures? And yes, “if you don’t follow my religion my way, you don’t belong here” counts as being bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/37 "2009-03-01T15:54:20Z")
Yeah, I took it that he was more Butthurtarian than anything; that’s not unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/38 "2009-03-01T15:59:07Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Shinna Minna Ma, you are a prat, a bigot and deserve NOT to get the job you asswipe. After reading the original thread, Mr and/or Ms Ma comes across as slightly naive, with unrealistic expectations of his / her adopted country, but it’s hardly pit-worthy. Where’s Kosher Smiley when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/39 "2009-03-01T16:54:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The difference, of course, is that pork obviously isn’t _that_ taboo since there seems to be a thriving market for it. > > If a Mormon came on here and said “unfortunately, coffee is available at any 7-11” we’d laugh our asses off at them. If they said something like “It’s unfortunate that so many Mormons slam down Diet Cokes in secret” we’d still laugh at then. > > If a Muslim came on here and started talking shit about non-Halal restaurants in Saudia Arabia, we’d probably get outright pissed. > > Religious bigotry is bigotry, and mild or not I think its lame in all of it’s forms, even when Israel is involved. Since caffeine is not forbidden in Mormonism, that’s a bad example. But let’s a assume you used Jack Daniel’s as an example. You’ve obviously never been around mormons. They _do_ say stuff like that. I doubt they get laughed at much for it, either. I’ll tell you what: I’m an atheist, and I hate all injustice committed in the name of religion. When we eradicate the 900,00 things above “which foods are unfortunate to eat” on the list, I’ll worry my pretty little head about this one. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771/40 "2009-03-01T17:20:43Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Yeah, but presumably these are not restaurants for bacon loving tourists, but rather restaurants whose customers are primarily Israeli. > > I’d gladly observe kosher laws if I were a tourist. But if I was Israeli who for whatever reason didn’t keep kosher, I’d certainly roll my eyes at anyone who says it’s “unfortunate” that I can buy a ham sandwich for lunch. > > FWIW this goes the other way, too. I get equally annoyed by people who call keeping kosher “an outdated custom” or whatever. My religion is mine, yours is yours. My lunch is mine, yours is yours. It’s really a personal thing. > > I’ll end with a challenge: Can anyone give me a good reason why you way say the availability of pork is “unfortunate” that doesn’t essentially boil down to “my religion/culture is better than yours.” Is there a way to interpret this as respectful of people with different beliefs and cultures? > > And yes, “if you don’t follow my religion my way, you don’t belong here” counts as being bigotry. Don’t agree. To me this is a tempest in a teapot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-a-bigoted-jew/487771.md?page=3)