# The pitting of people who mistakenly conflate justice with legality (Martin/Zimmerman related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028 "2013-07-20T13:04:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/361 "2013-07-24T20:18:21Z")
> [@camille](#): > > I agree that Serino is no scientist. But I know which scenario is more likely, and so does he. How do you know? Serino said, on the witness stand, under oath, that there were no significant contradictions in Zimmerman’s statements. He also said, under oath, that he believed Zimmerman was telling him the truth during those interrogations. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/362 "2013-07-24T20:26:10Z")
And did Zimmerman’s statement include: “And then the perp walked 300 feet away and 300 feet back before I saw him again?” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/363 "2013-07-24T20:28:46Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Same as you’re a lying liar for not knowing how far from my house I was when I told you: I was right by my house! > > Still waiting for a cite for that 300 feet. TIA. Then you must be right by your house. Why are you so confused about that fact? If you could describe your surroundings it might help? Birds? Flowers? Basket weavers? Police officers? It might help with an identification if you described what you’re wearing? A blue shirt? Brown shoes? Little red lazer light dots dancing around your chest? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/364 "2013-07-24T20:30:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How do you know? Serino said, on the witness stand, under oath, that there were no significant contradictions in Zimmerman’s statements. He also said, under oath, that he believed Zimmerman was telling him the truth during those interrogations. What does Zimmerman’s “honesty” have to do with this question? He said he couldn’t see Martin. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/365 "2013-07-24T20:32:41Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > And did Zimmerman’s statement include: “And then the perp walked 300 feet away and 300 feet back before I saw him again?” Not that was testified to in court. It was GZ’s story that he had lost sight of TM before GZ exited the car. It was also GZ’s story that he didn’t see TM again until TM started beating him. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/366 "2013-07-24T20:34:24Z")
I don’t read cursiffs, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/367 "2013-07-24T20:37:49Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Not that was testified to in court. It was GZ’s story that he had lost sight of TM before GZ exited the car. It was also GZ’s story that he didn’t see TM again until TM started beating him. So then, Zimmerman never said shit about Martin walking all the way back to his father’s fiance’s house? And yet, you contend that Serino was just trying trip Georgie up when he mention the impossibility of that happening. Thorough guy, that Serino. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/368 "2013-07-24T20:43:54Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So then, Zimmerman never said shit about Martin walking all the way back to his father’s fiance’s house? And yet, you contend that Serino was just trying trip Georgie up when he mention the impossibility of that happening. I know. It is absolutely physically impossible to walk 600 ft in four minutes. Against the laws of physics. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/369 "2013-07-24T20:46:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I know. It is absolutely physically impossible to walk 600 ft in four minutes. Against the laws of physics. Try Occam’s razor. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/370 "2013-07-24T20:56:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > TM had golf shoes on? Wasn’t it you who was going on about the shoes that Martin was wearing in the death-photo were different than the shoes he was wearing in the 7-11 video? Or was that another of our intrepid gum-shoes (no pun intended). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/371 "2013-07-24T21:04:16Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > …our intrepid gum-shoes (no pun intended). Too late, warrant sworn out. Put your affairs in order. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/372 "2013-07-24T21:45:16Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Try Occam’s razor. Sure let’s try it. Deedee’s testimony: “He say he right by his father house”. Camille: “That doesn’t mean what it seems it means. He could be anywhere”. Poor Occam, with people constantly twisting his razor. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/373 "2013-07-24T21:56:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure let’s try it. Deedee’s testimony: “He say he right by his father house”. Camille: “That doesn’t mean what it seems it means. He could be anywhere”. > > Poor Occam, with people constantly twisting his razor. Did you forget how to use the quote box function all of a sudden? When did I say that? In your dreams? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/374 "2013-07-24T21:58:14Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Did you forget how to use the quote box function all of a sudden? When did I say that? In your dreams? Post #347. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/375 "2013-07-24T22:04:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > So then, Zimmerman never said shit about Martin walking all the way back to his father’s fiance’s house? And yet, you contend that Serino was just trying trip Georgie up when he mention the impossibility of that happening. > > Thorough guy, that Serino. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Wasn’t it you who was going on about the shoes that Martin was wearing in the death-photo were different than the shoes he was wearing in the 7-11 video? Or was that another of our intrepid gum-shoes (no pun intended). Serino may be a thorough guy but you seem to be confused? Yes, Zimmerman never said shit about Martin walking all the way back to his father’s fiance’s house Serino did testify as to what he had said during GZ’s interrogation(s) and why he said the things that he did. No, I never mentioned TM’s changing shoes or TM changing shoes. I have mentioned the fact that the media, bloggers, and even the lawyers refer to TM having bought iced tea. TM didn’t by iced tea. TM bought Arizona watermelon drink. It’s a minor “fact” but it is a “fact”. Deliberately changing the facts only serves to cloud the issues. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/376 "2013-07-24T22:30:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Post #347. LOL. That’s so desperate. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/377 "2013-07-24T23:01:10Z")
> [@camille](#): > > LOL. That’s so desperate. FWIW, that’s how I read your post, too. What exactly did you mean if not some form of, “We don’t really know if he was very close to a house that was 300 feet away, he could have been, God, who knows where?” Seriously, I’m not getting your argument. “He say he right by his father house” can best be interpreted (using Occam’s razor) as what? I’m with Terr. The likeliest explanation is he told her he was right by the house because he was, well, right by the house. The house is 300 feet away. What are we to infer from this? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/378 "2013-07-24T23:58:08Z")
Figure of speech. If you’ve walked several blocks to a local store, and on your way back, when you got within 300 feet of your destination, seems perfectly reasonable thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/379 "2013-07-25T00:00:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Figure of speech. If you’ve walked several blocks to a local store, and on your way back, when you got within 300 feet of your destination, seems perfectly reasonable thing to say. That’s not how DeeDee interpreted it: “I thought he was going to be OK because he was right by his daddy’s house, but his daddy was not home”. If he was not **right** by his daddy’s house, daddy being at home or not would be irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/380 "2013-07-25T00:09:02Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > FWIW, that’s how I read your post, too. What exactly did you mean if not some form of, “We don’t really know if he was very close to a house that was 300 feet away, he could have been, God, who knows where?” > > Seriously, I’m not getting your argument. “He say he right by his father house” can best be interpreted (using Occam’s razor) as what? I’m with Terr. The likeliest explanation is he told her he was right by the house because he was, well, right by the house. The house is 300 feet away. What are we to infer from this? Typically, posters ascribe unboxed quotes to someone for a reason. It is against the rules to alter a quote inside a quote box. What do you infer from that? The post number he replied with the second time was my response to someone else, about how “right by” could not be determined as an exact location (i.e., 300 feet away from the T). IMO, “right by” could have been anywhere in that 300 feet between the T and his father’s house. My “Occam’s razor” remark had to do with a separate discussion, regarding Serino’s statement in the interview. Serino thought Martin was hiding. IMO, the simplest explanation is that Martin was hiding from Zimmerman somewhere near the T, and not that he went all the way home and then came back. **Terr** conflated the two discussions in his response to me, which is why he didn’t use direct quotes in his reply. Which is desperate. And too boring to be worth spelling out. But now it’s even more boring, because you prompted me to recap it. Maybe you should read for context next time, before jumping to conclusions based on your own bias. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028.md?page=20)