# The pitting of people who mistakenly conflate justice with legality (Martin/Zimmerman related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028 "2013-07-20T13:04:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/861 "2013-09-10T02:51:29Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > When was the last time Obama shot an unarmed teenager in the chest and then punched his father-in-law in the face (in light of his past run-ins with the law and instances of impulse control like our hero, The Zim)? Get back to me when anything remotely like that happens and I’ll address your dopey point. > > And you can look up “myriad” yourself - what am I, your tutor, or something? The point is – you uncritically accept the claim that there was a punch to the face. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/862 "2013-09-10T03:22:54Z")
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com) now says: > [@](#): > > The question of the gun became confused later when police told reporters there was no gun involved, but George Zimmerman’s attorney told CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 that he believed his client had a firearm on him. > “He acted appropriately. He never took the weapon out,” said Mark O’Mara, who is also a CNN legal analyst. O’Mara said he never saw the gun. > When asked Monday night by CNN for clarification about the gun, a spokesman for O’Mara’s law firm, Shawn Vincent, said there was no update yet. > **[George Zimmerman won’t be charged after alleged domestic incident | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/us/george-zimmerman-detained/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)** > > No charges were filed against George Zimmerman after an alleged altercation with his estranged wife and her father, Lake Mary, Florida, Police Chief Steve Bracknell said Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/863 "2013-09-10T06:07:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) now says: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/us/george-zimmerman-detained/index.html?hpt=hp\_t2](http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/us/george-zimmerman-detained/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) I’m not going to jump to conclusions as to whether or not Zimmerman threatened his father-in-law and wife with a gun, but since he was pulled over by the police for speeding and found with a gun in his car after the trial and the night he shot Trayvon he felt the need to strap a gun to his hip while going to Target. It certainly would strike me as quite plausible if not overwhelming probable that he carries a gun now if for no other reason than being afraid for his own safety. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/864 "2013-09-10T06:34:02Z")
Hmm. Obviously, even Florida has laws against drinking and driving. Is the offence aggravated if weapon is immediately present? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/865 "2013-09-10T10:51:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > According to [CNN, no gun involved](http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/us/george-zimmerman-detained/index.html?hpt=hp_c2): > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh, well that makes it okay then. :rolleyes: A conversation of the future: RANDOM POSTER: And then Assad used mustard gas on his own people! BRICKER: Actually,it appears to have been sarin or a sarin derivative. GUINASTASIA: Oh, well that makes it okay then. :rolleyes: No. But it makes it _accurate_, a concept whose value evidently eludes you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/866 "2013-09-10T10:52:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hmm. Obviously, even Florida has laws against drinking and driving. Is the offence aggravated if weapon is immediately present? Not to my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/867 "2013-09-10T14:36:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Also: public announcement: future use will of “Shut up, BigTard” will be assumed to be an attempt to bait me. Shut up, **BigTard**. > [@](#): > > It won’t make me shut up,… I will never shut up when told. We are, unfortunately, well aware of that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/868 "2013-09-10T18:03:24Z")
I think all the GZ detractors in this thread should apologize. We now have definitive proof that GZ dos not, in general, shoot to kill [del]white[/del] people [del]who are weaker than him[/del] just because they irritate him. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/869 "2013-09-10T20:25:27Z")
I wonder if he delivered his “step closer” taunts in a Clint Eastwood growl. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/870 "2013-09-10T21:15:45Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I wonder if he delivered his “step closer” taunts in a Clint Eastwood growl. **BigTard** does. Just look at his last post. I don’t know about _you_, but he’s certainly got _me_ quivering in fear. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/871 "2013-09-10T21:16:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The point is – you uncritically accept the claim that there was a punch to the face. I accept her comments at face value. I don’t assume that she’s some whoreshedeviltrampslutcuntmoneygrubberbitch (or whatever other derogatory names you straight guys call women now-a-days) who paces in her black spiral tower with an army of flying, bat-winged monkeys wielding diminutive pitchforks, plotting some malicious and vindictive act to “get back” at George Zimmerman. You mentioned that she was convicted purjurer: you’re terrible for bringing that up, especially since she lied because and _for her husband_. In other words, through this entire tragedy, she is the only one to bear not just the brunt of the guilt but all of it. In fact, her perjury could have been made under de facto duress from her husband given her marriage was rocky before the trial (according to her). Instead of accosting a convicted purjurer, what you should be asking yourself as a family man, what frame of mind would you be in to **not** support your wife during a trial, when she did the same for you, _for you_. If you have a shred of humanity, you would be there by your partner instead of speeding down the Interstate Highway, visiting gun factories, and rescuing villages from burning cars. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/872 "2013-09-10T21:35:31Z")
BTW, what does it tell us that GZ has sunk into stupidity since his acquittal? He had the chance of pushing his fame into a rich sinecure: Racists would have spent money on ghost-written books; Fox News would probably have hired him as an expert commentator on racism or law or something. Instead … he divorces his wife, punches her father, gets apprehended multiple times … We already suspected he was a racist and an asshole. Is he also an imbecile? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/873 "2013-09-10T21:36:25Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > …you straight guys call women now-a-days… Mostly, "dear"and “honey”, as in “Yes, dear” or “You’re right, honey”. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/874 "2013-09-10T22:08:35Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I accept her comments at face value. You accept her comments at face value, despite there being no evidence to back them up, but you call Zimmerman a murderer despite the fact that he claims otherwise _and_ there’s a shitton of evidence supporting him? You - and anyone else who thinks that way - are a bigoted moronic arsehole. Are you really too fucking stupid to see the hypocrisy and inconsistency here? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/875 "2013-09-10T22:37:52Z")
[Zimmerman’s lawyer quits.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-loses-lawyer-cops-seek-fight-video/story?id=20212533) Apparently the cops are trying to piece together a video that was recorded on the iPad. It’s unclear if they’ll be able to do so as the iPad is now “in a couple of different pieces.” This is the best soap opera ever. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/876 "2013-09-10T23:00:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > BTW, what does it tell us that GZ has sunk into stupidity since his acquittal? He had the chance of pushing his fame into a rich sinecure: Racists would have spent money on ghost-written books; Fox News would probably have hired him as an expert commentator on racism or law or something. Instead … he divorces his wife, punches her father, gets apprehended multiple times … > > We already suspected he was a racist and an asshole. Is he also an imbecile? “Sunk?” Really? I’d argue that he’s stayed a more or less level stupid this whole time. I didn’t sense any whiffs of genius from him in the past year and a half, and they certainly aren’t coming now. I don’t agree he’s a racist, but I think “imbecile,” is not an unfair description. And “asshole” is also right on the money. Always has been. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/877 "2013-09-10T23:03:59Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I accept her comments at face value. > > I don’t assume that she’s some whoreshedeviltrampslutcuntmoneygrubberbitch (or whatever other derogatory names you straight guys call women now-a-days) who paces in her black spiral tower with an army of flying, bat-winged monkeys wielding diminutive pitchforks, plotting some malicious and vindictive act to “get back” at George Zimmerman. You mentioned that she was convicted purjurer: you’re terrible for bringing that up, especially since she lied because and _for her husband_. In other words, through this entire tragedy, she is the only one to bear not just the brunt of the guilt but all of it. In fact, her perjury could have been made under de facto duress from her husband given her marriage was rocky before the trial (according to her). > > Instead of accosting a convicted purjurer, what you should be asking yourself as a family man, what frame of mind would you be in to **not** support your wife during a trial, when she did the same for you, _for you_. If you have a shred of humanity, you would be there by your partner instead of speeding down the Interstate Highway, visiting gun factories, and rescuing villages from burning cars. Look, if your argument is that Zimmerman is a great gaping asshole, then I am right there with you. And I don’t have any particular reason to trust him – but since his wife is also a liar, and a convicted one to boot, I have just as little reason to trust her. Even more damning is the lack of a gun when she reported a gun. I have no idea what the dynamics of their relationship are. But I know that neither of them is a prize. i don’t see her lie about the money as nobly supporting her husband. Neither one of them had any moral authority to lie to the court about having $135,000 in the bank. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/878 "2013-09-10T23:07:31Z")
Yeah, but, he _doesn’t_ have a gun? Well, isn’t that special. When he shouldn’t have had one, he did, now that he needs one, he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/879 "2013-09-10T23:12:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > We already suspected he was a racist and an asshole. Is he also an imbecile? Anyone who is aware of the cockamie story of how Trayvon Martin allegedly attacked him should know the answer to this question already. But the bigger imbeciles are the people who believe him and continue to defend him even as he keeps getting in trouble with the law. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/880 "2013-09-10T23:15:19Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Anyone who is aware of the cockamie story of how Trayvon Martin allegedly attacked him should know the answer to this question already. > > But the bigger imbeciles are the people who believe him and continue to defend him even as he keeps getting in trouble with the law. I didn’t know mentioning bigoted moronic fucktards actually summoned them… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028.md?page=45)