# The pitting of people who mistakenly conflate justice with legality (Martin/Zimmerman related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028 "2013-07-20T13:04:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/901 "2013-09-11T19:20:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I wouldn’t make Michelle mad at me if I had an armored division for a personal bodyguard. I bet she’s got quite the “war face”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/902 "2013-09-12T00:40:05Z")
I propose a death pool for little Georgie. Who will he kill next, and how will his apologists explain it away? We could create a table; next victim across the vertical and excuse across the horizontal. We all pay a little to play, pick a square, and the winner gets the cash. For the vertical I propose: 1. His wife 2. O’Mara 3. His father-in-law 4. Himself 5. Random black person under 12 years of age 6. Random black person over 12 years of age And for the horizontal I propose: 1. S/he was walking suspiciously 2. But think of all the people he hasn’t killed! 3. Technically, most of those weren’t murders, you big meanies! 4. It’s the victim’s fault for not shooting first 5. The whole thing was a frame job by the new black panthers (both of them!) 6. Al Sharpton! Urban! Drank! No limit! Subhuman! Blarggghhh! (aka, the Lonesome Polecat approach) I’ll go first. I pick “His Wife” and “It’s the victim’s fault for not shooting first” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/903 "2013-09-12T00:55:34Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I propose a death pool for little Georgie. Who will he kill next, and how will his apologists explain it away? We could create a table; next victim across the vertical and excuse across the horizontal. We all pay a little to play, pick a square, and the winner gets the cash. > > For the vertical I propose: > > 1. His wife > 2. O’Mara > 3. His father-in-law > 4. Himself > 5. Random black person under 12 years of age > 6. Random black person over 12 years of age > > And for the horizontal I propose: > > 1. S/he was walking suspiciously > 2. But think of all the people he hasn’t killed! > 3. Technically, most of those weren’t murders, you big meanies! > 4. It’s the victim’s fault for not shooting first > 5. The whole thing was a frame job by the new black panthers (both of them!) > 6. Al Sharpton! Urban! Drank! No limit! Subhuman! Blarggghhh! (aka, the Lonesome Polecat approach) > > I’ll go first. I pick “His Wife” and “It’s the victim’s fault for not shooting first” How about “No one, payable two years from today?” I’ll put some money on that. Will you? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/904 "2013-09-12T01:00:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about “No one, payable two years from today?” > > I’ll put some money on that. Will you? I feel as though at some point in your life someone should have sat you down and explained the concept of “hu-man hum-oor” to you. Bonus, your friends would like you more if you weren’t always interrupting their jokes to triumphantly declare “Wrong! Ducks can’t talk!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/905 "2013-09-12T02:07:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I feel as though at some point in your life someone should have sat you down and explained the concept of “hu-man hum-oor” to you. Bonus, your friends would like you more if you weren’t always interrupting their jokes to triumphantly declare “Wrong! Ducks can’t talk!” How many comedians do you imagine succeed because the audience fails to laugh at their jokes, but warm up after the comedian demands that they concede that the joke was actually funny? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/906 "2013-09-12T02:57:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How many comedians do you imagine succeed because the audience fails to laugh at their jokes, but warm up after the comedian demands that they concede that the joke was actually funny? Yes, this argument will certainly prove to the world that you’re not a humorless pedant. Maybe you should follow-up with a legal definition of “humor,” “comedian” and “joke.” That would be a winning combo for you. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/907 "2013-09-12T12:42:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How many comedians do you imagine succeed because the audience fails to laugh at their jokes, but warm up after the comedian demands that they concede that the joke was actually funny? Hey pal, I don’t come down to where you work and slap the _dictum_ out of your mouth! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/908 "2013-09-12T13:06:00Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yes, this argument will certainly prove to the world that you’re not a humorless pedant. Maybe you should follow-up with a legal definition of “humor,” “comedian” and “joke.” That would be a winning combo for you. Oh, I get it! Legal definition! Ha! That’s hilarious, because, I’m a lawyer, so, funny. My goodness, how have you NOT been on the Tonight Show yet? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/909 "2013-09-12T13:44:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh, I get it! Legal definition! Ha! That’s hilarious, because, I’m a lawyer, so, funny. > > My goodness, how have you NOT been on the Tonight Show yet? You watch the Tonight Show? I think I see the problem. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/910 "2013-09-12T16:00:08Z")
But that Steve Allen is such a nice young man. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/911 "2013-09-12T16:13:35Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You watch the Tonight Show? I think I see the problem. Is the problem that I watch the show more people ages 18-49 watch? Because that’s not really a “problem,” as such. According to in-home viewing figures from Nielsen Media Research for the week of Aug. 26-30, adults 18-49: RATINGS/SHARE 11:35 p.m.-12:35 a.m. ET NBC “Tonight,” 0.8 rating, 4 share CBS “Late Show,” 0.6 rating, 2 share ABC “Kimmel,” 0.5 rating, 2 share TOTAL VIEWERS 11:35 p.m.-12:35 a.m. ET NBC “Tonight,” 3.5 million viewers CBS “Late Show,” 2.5 million viewers ABC “Kimmel,” 1.9 million viewers Or is this one of those deals where you believe the _less_ popular your chosen show is is what proves how much better it is? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/912 "2013-09-12T17:54:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Or is this one of those deals where you believe the _less_ popular your chosen show is is what proves how much better it is? Clearly, you haven’t noticed: True Doper’s must watch The Daily Show or The Colbert Report. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/913 "2013-09-12T18:15:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is the problem that I watch the show more people ages 18-49 watch? Because that’s not really a “problem,” as such. > … > Or is this one of those deals where you believe the _less_ popular your chosen show is is what proves how much better it is? I certainly appreciate the circularity of using charts and tables to argue that you’re not a humorless pedant. Perhaps some glossy photographs will seal the deal? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/914 "2013-09-12T18:54:15Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I certainly appreciate the circularity of using charts and tables to argue that you’re not a humorless pedant. Perhaps some glossy photographs will seal the deal? So you’re saying, in effect, _Yes, yes, you may be factually correct in every particular, and I may have been factually wrong, but **I** was FUNNY! Take that!_ Well, if it helps, I think this approach of yours is fucking hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/915 "2013-09-12T19:10:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So you’re saying, in effect, _Yes, yes, you may be factually correct in every particular, and I may have been factually wrong, but **I** was FUNNY! Take that!_ > > Well, if it helps, I think this approach of yours is fucking hilarious. Yes, when you said “hurumph, sir, I watch the same comedic television programming as the majority of American males aged 18-45, thus I am certainly not without humor,” I was certainly put in my place. When this thread is televised, you’ll be played by Rainn Wilson. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/916 "2013-09-12T20:46:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is the problem that I watch the show more people ages 18-49 watch? Because that’s not really a “problem,” as such. > > According to in-home viewing figures from Nielsen Media Research for the week of Aug. 26-30, adults 18-49: > > RATINGS/SHARE > 11:35 p.m.-12:35 a.m. ET > NBC “Tonight,” 0.8 rating, 4 share > CBS “Late Show,” 0.6 rating, 2 share > ABC “Kimmel,” 0.5 rating, 2 share > TOTAL VIEWERS > 11:35 p.m.-12:35 a.m. ET > NBC “Tonight,” 3.5 million viewers > CBS “Late Show,” 2.5 million viewers > ABC “Kimmel,” 1.9 million viewers > > Or is this one of those deals where you believe the _less_ popular your chosen show is is what proves how much better it is? So, Bricker…McDonalds’s has sold _billions_ and _billions_ and _billions_…fuckit…at this point I’m sure we’re safe to call it trillions…of hamburgers. Given the weight of those numbers, I think it’s impossible to argue against the clear superiority of the McDonald’s burger, right? _Argumentum ad populum_, my friend? To justify the quality of _comedy_? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/917 "2013-09-12T22:26:12Z")
This is the lamest hijack in board history. I’m praying for a conspiracy theorist to show up and accuse the government of killing Trayvon. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/918 "2013-09-12T23:21:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is the lamest hijack in board history. I’m praying for a conspiracy theorist to show up and accuse the government of killing Trayvon. If you study the overnights for the show “New Girl”, you already KNOW who killed Trayvon!! _ **dons tinfoil** _ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/919 "2013-09-13T02:21:17Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > So, Bricker…McDonalds’s has sold _billions_ and _billions_ and _billions_…fuckit…at this point I’m sure we’re safe to call it trillions…of hamburgers. Given the weight of those numbers, I think it’s impossible to argue against the clear superiority of the McDonald’s burger, right? > > _Argumentum ad populum_, my friend? To justify the quality of _comedy_? Yes, it’s impossible to argue that McDonald’s is not producing a superior product. That is not simply a measure of burger quality, however. Price is also a factor. Availability is a factor. But taken as a whole, it would be madness to try to pretend that McDonald’s is offering something that people don’t want. And ultimately, that’s a valid measure f success. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028/920 "2013-09-13T02:22:28Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yes, when you said “hurumph, sir, I watch the same comedic television programming as the majority of American males aged 18-45, thus I am certainly not without humor,” I was certainly put in my place. > > When this thread is televised, you’ll be played by Rainn Wilson. The guy who just spent years and years starring on one of the more successful comedy shows of the current era? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pitting-of-people-who-mistakenly-conflate-justice-with-legality-martin-zimmerman-related/664028.md?page=47)