# The Planned Parenthood thread fiasco revisited **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504 "2008-12-10T04:02:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/61 "2008-12-10T23:15:25Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Dipshit. Now, there’s a clever defense of the anti-abortionists. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/62 "2008-12-10T23:21:18Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > You do realize that menarch can start early for some girls. The youngest mother on record was [five years old](http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp). I had friend who got her period in the third grade. Should she have been able to go get the pill or a diaphragm, no questions asked? > > Jonathan And statistically, how many girls under 12 are in menarch? It is absurdly rare. And yes, if they had wanted birth control, yes. To be perfectly blunt, my PERSONAL belief is that we need to develop some sort of birthcontrol that can safely be implanted at menarch, no matter what age, and not nullified until they can pass a basic parenting class at majority. Put a stop to teenage pregnancy. Of course with the stupidity of judeo-christian morality driving our laws, it isnt going to happen. Great Ghu, refusing a HPV vaccine for your daughter ‘because it encourages promiscuity’ and risking her life … positively barbaric. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/63 "2008-12-10T23:21:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Now, there’s a clever defense of the anti-abortionists. A reference to the obvious is not an attack on a particular ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/64 "2008-12-10T23:21:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Now, there’s a clever defense of the anti-abortionists. It’s not a defense of anything. Straw men don’t need defending. It’s a judgment based on seeing someone picking on straw men. People who pick on straw men are dipshits. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/65 "2008-12-10T23:28:02Z")
Let me get this straight. If the nurse had collected information on this non-existent “rapist” and phoned it into the police, she would have been breaking the law: to wit, filing a false police report. If she didn’t, she was breaking the law. Me: I vote that that the anti-abortionist lying sacks of shit stop trying to manipulate the system to get the result they want. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/66 "2008-12-10T23:29:49Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > It’s not a defense of anything. Straw men don’t need defending. It’s a judgment based on seeing someone picking on straw men. People who pick on straw men are dipshits. Oh, please. The anti-abortion movement and those who compose it have a long history of being anti-woman. They can’t get away any more ( here ) with stoning women to death or putting them in prison camps and beating them while calling them “sluts”, so instead they try to hurt them indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/67 "2008-12-10T23:31:01Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And statistically, how many girls under 12 are in menarch? It is absurdly rare. Is it? That doesn’t agree with my admittedly anecdotal life. ETA: According to Wikipedia, the average age in the US for menarche is 12.5 years. If that statistic is correct, there’s no way it’s “absurdly rare” for it to happen under 12. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/68 "2008-12-10T23:32:43Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Let me get this straight. If the nurse had collected information on this non-existent “rapist” and phoned it into the police, she would have been breaking the law: to wit, filing a false police report. > > If she didn’t, she was breaking the law. > > Me: I vote that that the anti-abortionist lying sacks of shit stop trying to manipulate the system to get the result they want. I’d asked about that upthread. COnsensus from lawyers here was that the nurse would have had protection from prosecution on the matter, the lying sack of shit might have been able to be prosecuted (they’d need to prove that she knew there was a duty to report, however, I suspect since that was part of the sting, it’d been easy enough to do) ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/69 "2008-12-10T23:34:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh, please. The anti-abortion movement and those who compose it have a long history of being anti-woman. They can’t get away any more ( here ) with stoning women to death or putting them in prison camps and beating them while calling them “sluts”, so instead they try to hurt them indirectly. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” - Hamlet Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/70 "2008-12-10T23:37:20Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” - Hamlet Quoting Hamlet ( irrelevantly ) doesn’t make scum any less scummy. And the anti-abortionists are scum. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/71 "2008-12-10T23:42:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Quoting Hamlet ( irrelevantly ) doesn’t make scum any less scummy. And the anti-abortionists are scum. You’re entitled to your judgment, just as I’m entitled to mine. The difference is yours is based on words you put in other’s mouths and what you assume is in their heads. Mine is based on your own statements. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/72 "2008-12-10T23:42:38Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And statistically, how many girls under 12 are in menarch? It is absurdly rare. Somebody should pull out some cites, but from my own experiences I’d say it was pretty common. Under 10, maybe, would be quite unusual. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/73 "2008-12-10T23:47:10Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Somebody should pull out some cites, but from my own experiences I’d say it was pretty common. Under 10, maybe, would be quite unusual. > [@](#): > > When does a girl usually get her first period? > In the United States, the average age is 12. This does not mean that all girls start at the same age. A girl can start her period anytime between the ages of eight and 15. Usually, the first period starts about two years after breasts first start to grow. If a girl has not had her first period by age 15, or if it has been more than two to three years since breast growth started, she should see a doctor. from [here](http://www.womenshealth.gov/faq/menstruation.cfm) So the phrase “absurdly rare” would seem to be inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/74 "2008-12-10T23:56:10Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > You’re entitled to your judgment, just as I’m entitled to mine. The difference is yours is based on words you put in other’s mouths and what you assume is in their heads. Mine is based on your own statements. Mine is based on how such people have always acted and do act, when and where they can. It’s based on their indifference ( when they aren’t outright gloating ) to the suffering they cause. Your opinion, on the other hand is apparently based on the attitude that the anti-abortionists can’t possibly be bad people, no matter how they act, and that calling them such makes me a “dipshit”. A useful insult because it has no real definition, so you conveniently don’t have to defend your use of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/75 "2008-12-11T00:36:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Mandatory reporting for those who are in constant contact with kids versus for those who are only sought out under extreme circumstances maybe need to be different. A nurse at PP isn’t going to have a long time to build up trust. If she loses the trust of the patients, she has nothing. Are mandated reporters legally enabled to hold a minor against her will until CPS shows up? (Which sort of assumes that CPS will be able to show up within a reasonable amount of time.) I think such things should be reported, but how that’s supposed to happen when they may not get full, or truthful, contact information and the girl can run out of there whenever she wants, I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/76 "2008-12-11T01:10:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Mine is based on how such people have always acted and do act, when and where they can. It’s based on their indifference ( when they aren’t outright gloating ) to the suffering they cause. > > Your opinion, on the other hand is apparently based on the attitude that the anti-abortionists can’t possibly be bad people, no matter how they act, and that calling them such makes me a “dipshit”. A useful insult because it has no real definition, so you conveniently don’t have to defend your use of it. There came unto the High Chapperal one who had studied in the schools of the Purple Sage and of the Hung Mung Tong and of the Illuminati and of the many other schools; and this one had found no peace yet. Yea: of the Discordians and the teachers of the Mummu and of the Nazarene and of the Buddha he had studied; and he had found no peace yet. And he spake to the High Chapperal and said: Give me a sign, that I may believe. And the High Chapperal said unto him: Leave my presence, and seek ye the horizon and the sign shall come unto you, and ye shall seek no more. And the man turned and sought of the horizon; but the High Chapperal crept up behind him and raised his foot and did deliver a most puissant kick in the man’s arse, which smarted much and humiliated the seeker grievously. He who has eyes, let him read and understand. –”The Book of Grandmotherly Kindness,” The Dishonest Book of Lies, by Mordecai Malignatus, K.N.S. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/77 "2008-12-11T01:21:50Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Are mandated reporters legally enabled to hold a minor against her will until CPS shows up? (Which sort of assumes that CPS will be able to show up within a reasonable amount of time.) > > I think such things should be reported, but how that’s supposed to happen when they may not get full, or truthful, contact information and the girl can run out of there whenever she wants, I dunno. That’s a good question. A 13 year old generally is not blessed with multiple forms of photo ID in triplicate. Under normal circumstances, how does PP identify patients as who they say they are? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/78 "2008-12-11T03:18:54Z")
I’m a mandated reported, and I would not attempt to hold this 13 y/o against their will. In fact, I would not expect CPS to come to the interview site. Just to clarify, my initial post was not meant to take the nurses’ side, merely to suggest things are definitely not black and white. Being male, I don’t see myself working for PP, but I would use my judgement in a case like this. And yes **Bricker** I acknowledge that that’s a sub-optimun solution. I did vote against the mandatory parental notification initiative last month, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/79 "2008-12-11T04:10:36Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > There came unto the High Chapperal one who had studied in the schools of the Purple Sage and of the Hung Mung Tong and of the Illuminati and of the many other schools; and this one had found no peace yet. > > Yea: of the Discordians and the teachers of the Mummu and of the Nazarene and of the Buddha he had studied; and he had found no peace yet. > > And he spake to the High Chapperal and said: Give me a sign, that I may believe. > > And the High Chapperal said unto him: Leave my presence, and seek ye the horizon and the sign shall come unto you, and ye shall seek no more. > > And the man turned and sought of the horizon; but the High Chapperal crept up behind him and raised his foot and did deliver a most puissant kick in the man’s arse, which smarted much and humiliated the seeker grievously. > > He who has eyes, let him read and understand. > > –”The Book of Grandmotherly Kindness,” > The Dishonest Book of Lies, by Mordecai Malignatus, K.N.S. Another non-sequitur. And a rather silly one. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504/80 "2008-12-11T07:58:27Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Aren’t strict liability laws wonderful? Look what they cause. A web of more laws intended to force a rainbow colored world into black and white. People put in situations where they can either hurt someone in one way or hurt them in another way and the law gives them no choice but to hurt someone or become a criminal. > > I have zero tolerance for strict liability laws. Cases like this are part of the reason. > > Enjoy, > Steven The phrase “[strict liability](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability)” has a specific legal meaning. It refers to liability that is applied without regard to culpability, fault, or intention. In Indiana, neither the statutory rape law nor the mandatory reporting law are strict liability offenses. A reasonable belief that the minor in question is 18 or older is a defense. I think you mean you have zero tolerance for zero tolerance laws–that is, laws which draw bright lines without accounting for circumstances, yes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-planned-parenthood-thread-fiasco-revisited/476504.md?page=5)