# The players tried to leave the field, the marching band refused to yield, what details have been concealed, the way they tased this guy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216 "2023-09-16T19:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/221 "2023-09-20T22:44:07Z")
I wanted to get to the end before posting this but this is moving quickly, and here seems like a good spot: There was an entire squad of cheer leaders on the field still visibly cheering. Why exactly weren’t the police telling them to leave? If there was pressing reason that everyone had to leave asap, why weren’t there cops pushing out the the cheer squad, the random people on the field, or the other side of the stadium where there were still people visibly sitting in the stands? Why the urgent focus on the bands to the apparent exclusion of other groups present? I just don’t understand those here who so blindly want to follow authority to the point of excusing bad behavior because it’s the police behaving badly. Even to the point of excusing physical assault on an ordinary citizen because he didn’t kiss their butts properly. Those kids don’t need to learn blind obedience. We are all aware that this isn’t the civil rights era (though as a country we’re moving back to reliving all of that) the reference to that was clearly an analogy. However, allowing the sort of bad policing displayed by these officers is just another step in that direction. And it’s sort of irrelevant weather you feel, no “sympathy” for the director, or side with the police, their use of force was completely inappropriate to the, “threat.” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/222 "2023-09-20T22:46:02Z")
Look. I didn’t mean to get involved in a big debate over police actions or if they are right or wrong. I’m not a debater. I just want everyone safe. Kids, most especially. I think adults around them should behave in a law abiding manner. I think the band director, for whatever reason decided to fight back. I don’t like how young people act nowadays. Maybe I’m getting old or something but it seems they are unruly, bad-mouthed and untrained. Some carry weapons and engage in unlawful activities that endanger the public. They drive like jerks and treat the other sexes in awful ways. Some one needs to try and stop this trend. Or we’ll be in an awful mess. It starts at home. School carries it on, in optimal situations, which isn’t to say that’s guaranteed. When that fails we lean on law enforcement to get them. The jails are full to the max. with young adults who have followed this path. I think one man, a simple band director could have, should have taken the police at their word and complied with the order as soon as stated. Packed his band up and left. For the good of the children. If nothing else. I’m done. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/223 "2023-09-20T22:47:17Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > If we all don’t instantly obey authority figures we are all dead, apparently. I laughed out loud…thanks for that! ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/224 "2023-09-20T22:49:01Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > I’m astonished that you’re astonished. LOL, fair enough. I guess I should know better. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/225 "2023-09-20T22:50:02Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > This band director _made a choice_ to put his students in direct harms way. How exactly were the students put in direct harms way? Was the next step going to be “Tase all the kids until they respect mah authoritah?” ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/226 "2023-09-20T22:51:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > How exactly were the students put in direct harms way? Was the next step going to be “Tase all the kids until they respect mah authoritah?” Yeah, I’m really not getting that either. The biggest threat to safety seems to have been the police! ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/227 "2023-09-20T22:59:23Z")
> [@Kirstin](#): > > Your comment is of one that needs to ride along with a cop for at least a few days. You’ll soon realize how important your own safety becomes. It’s your life on the line now. Bullshit and overly dramatic. As I mentioned upthread, I have a law enforcement background and have worked with law enforcement agencies for more than 30 years. > [@Kirstin](#): > > How much trust will you give someone that’s being placed under arrest and refusing to show his/her hands, or their hand suddenly darting under their jacket or jammed into a pocket. And this is relevant to the arrest of the bandleader how exactly? > [@Kirstin](#): > > Let’s see how much calm understanding and unlimited patience you’ll have after day after day of being disrespected and lied to. So you are justifying the tasering of a high school bandleader because the cop might have been disrespected during the day? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/228 "2023-09-20T23:06:09Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > My concern is the very strong anti-law enforcement sentiment I see in social media and even in a few of the posters we have here, and I think this has contributed to the increasingly bold criminal acts reported on a daily basis, at least here in Chicagoland. I don’t have an anti-law enforcement sentiment. I’m very much in favor of the laws being enforced. That’s a large part of the reason for my anti-police sentiment. > [@Jasmine](#): > > My feeling is simply this. Crime should be a dangerous profession. Unless the criminals are wearing uniforms? > [@Hampshire](#): > > And as a parent I would advocate dismissing the band leader from his job. If I was a parent of one of those band kids I am trusting the adults there to supervise and protect my kid. So the band director should have initiated ALICE protocols against the dangerous intruder? Meanwhile, I’m still puzzled by @Beckdawrek 's view that, after two hours of muscular, armored young men giving each other brain damage, it’s the folks playing songs at each other who pose the risk of violence. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > This band director _made a choice_ to put his students in direct harms way. The band director wasn’t the one using lethal weapons. The students were in harm’s way as soon as the assailants showed up. Just giving in to the assailants would not, in any way, have protected the students. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I think adults around them should behave in a law abiding manner. They did. Conducting a band is perfectly legal. Well, the adults other than the police, at least. Assault with a deadly weapon isn’t legal. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/229 "2023-09-20T23:10:24Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I don’t like how young people act nowadays. Maybe I’m getting old or something but it seems they are unruly, bad-mouthed and untrained. Some carry weapons and engage in unlawful activities that endanger the public. > They drive like jerks and treat the other sexes in awful ways. I think you are getting old. 😉 That’s been an age-old complaint. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I think the band director, for whatever reason decided to fight back. The band director did not “fight back”. He argued. He non-violently resisted arrest. But he didn’t fight. I think that’s a really important distinction. Maybe he shouldn’t have resisted arrest. But that’s not a crime that ought to be punished with tasing, not unless there’s some other risk. Which there wasn’t. He was standing still. Apparetly surrounded by cops. Offering no violence, and no threat of violence. I have to admit that I live in a different world from a lot of you. I’ve been to a lot of high school football games. Other than the violence of the game itself (which is a rant for another thread) there’s been no violence. Underage kids making out, kids smoking tobacco and weed, sure. Maybe some underage booze. But that’s the level of law-breaking that’s common. The band plays at the end as the spectators file out. It’s muddled, with people greeting each other and standing in the way of foot traffic, but not scary. That’s my world. So I don’t get the “it’s dangerous, we need those cops!!!” on an emotional level. The games I’ve been to have had cops directing foot traffic, but it could just as well be teachers or janitors or volunteer parents wearing reflective vests and carrying cell phones to communicate in case something comes up. But okay, I grant that y’all attend games where the spectators get into fights and kids are at risk. - How does the band playing increase those risks? - How do the cops ordering around the band director mitigate those risks? If the band cuts off in the middle of a song, won’t that create some confusion? Does it even get the band off the field faster? - Again, the bands aren’t fighting, they are busy playing their instruments. Isn’t it SAFER if they stay in their clumps and don’t interact with those violent people? - How do the cops escalating to violence possibly help? I don’t think any of this was about public safety. I think that either the police were cranky because the game ran a little long, or they were cranky because their team lost, and they decided to take it out on the band. And they created a public disturbance and then escalated it to potentially deadly violence. There is plenty of blame to go around. The band director should have accepted his arrest quietly and let a judge sort it out. But the police were totally out of control and created violence instead of preventing violence. The band leader’s error is boring and minor and unimportant and would never have made the national news. The police officers’ error is scary and draws attention to the excesses of police. It threatens the legitimacy of police, quite frankly. That’s why it made national news. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/230 "2023-09-20T23:16:28Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Huh? I don’t believe there is any disagreement as to whether he was tased. It was captured on video, the band leader claims he was tased, the statement the police gave to the press said he was tased, and I bet the records at the hospital the police say they took him to confirms that as well. I’ll repeat my question: > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Did someone tell you that he wasn’t tased? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/231 "2023-09-20T23:19:56Z")
Oh, sorry, I’m a little dyslexic and misread your post. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/232 "2023-09-20T23:20:01Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I’m done. For real this time? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/233 "2023-09-20T23:22:49Z")
Well, maybe. I’ll try real hard. 😊 Y’all are awesome debaters, just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/234 "2023-09-20T23:23:29Z")
I just can’t stay annoyed at you. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/235 "2023-09-20T23:24:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Oh, sorry, I’m a little dyslexic and misread your post. FWIW, I had the same reading you did. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/236 "2023-09-20T23:24:55Z")
It was a weird thing to say. I should have tried re-reading the post. 🤷 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/237 "2023-09-20T23:29:06Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Officer 2: “He’s going to jail because I asked him to respect [unintelligible]. That was not respectful to me.” That sounds like it came from an Onion article with a picture of Cartman. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/238 "2023-09-20T23:31:05Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > So I don’t get the “it’s dangerous, we need those cops!!!” on an emotional level. The games I’ve been to have had cops directing foot traffic, but it could just as well be teachers or janitors or volunteer parents wearing reflective vests and carrying cell phones to communicate in case something comes up. > > But okay, I grant that y’all attend games where the spectators get into fights and kids are at risk. > > - How does the band playing increase those risks? This seems to be a recurring question that’s not been directly addressed, so I will address it (against my better judgment). Festive public events are celebrated and marked by music. When the music starts, the event starts, When the music stops, the event is over. If you’re trying to bring a public space into its intended emptied state, then ongoing music is an obstacle to that, because it sustains the festive atmosphere that makes people feel there’s still an ongoing event worth lingering around for. And there’s the basic mathematical fact that the band itself is composed of 100-300 people who should be packing their things and leaving like everyone else. Again, this is not a confusing concept, the away team’s band was apparently able to exit the premises with no arrests or tasings involved, which begs the question of why the home team couldn’t seem to manage it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/239 "2023-09-20T23:33:57Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > why the home team couldn’t seem to manage it. apparently because the police jumped into the face of the band leader, barking orders he might or might not have heard clearly, instead of doing the normal thing, and tapping him on the shoulder to ask him to wrap up at the end of the song. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/240 "2023-09-20T23:34:21Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Again, this is not a confusing concept, the away team’s band was apparently able to exit the premises with no arrests or tasings involved, which begs the question of why the home team couldn’t seem to manage it. You keep repeating this like it’s some big gotcha. It’s not. Lots of reasons have been provided. You’re the only one that can’t see the myriad of reasons why this might be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216.md?page=13)