# The players tried to leave the field, the marching band refused to yield, what details have been concealed, the way they tased this guy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216 "2023-09-16T19:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/282 "2023-09-21T01:43:51Z")
I don’t know if that’s the first contact. “When we say go…” read to me like something happened before that. I suspect that’s when someone decided to start recording, probably because they wanted evidence that the police were acting inappropriately. And it sure looks to be like they collected that evidence. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/283 "2023-09-21T01:56:40Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Yeah, the director could have just stood down and gone back to doing his job. Oh, wait, that’s exactly what he was doing. ⁢ > > The director was a public school educator. When the final buzzer sounded, he had one and only one responsibility: get his kids safely back on the bus and home. He made a different and regrettable choice. ⁢ This is factually incorrect, on multiple levels. The information we have says that this was a Battle of the Bands situation, where the bands trade off playing songs after the game is over–i.e. after the buzzer. Furthermore, there has been no indication that the kids were not safe, nor that they didn’t safely get on the bus. In fact, the only danger we have verified is the cop who used the taser. When you use counterfactuals, it suggest bias–in this case, bias against the director and/or towards the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/284 "2023-09-21T02:06:28Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Note, either party could have stood down at this point. But the cop was the instigator. He created the conflict that led to the assault, restraint and arrest of a citizen that was doing his job…leading a high school band. There was no need to interfere with the band’s playing. As I said above, he could have just waited for the song to end and then politely ask the bandleader to shut it down. I question what authority the cop had to order the band to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/285 "2023-09-21T02:09:02Z")
Man, if getting kids on the bus and home really were the only responsibility school officials had, schooling would look very different… ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/286 "2023-09-21T02:49:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This is factually incorrect, on multiple levels. The information we have says that this was a Battle of the Bands situation, where the bands trade off playing songs after the game is over–i.e. after the buzzer. What information do you have? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/287 "2023-09-21T03:12:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Because this reads to me as if you are describing some sort of a dystopian nightmare. Without any additional context, I’m imagining barbed wire fences, riots on the streets, Judge Dredd on his way in order to enforce THE LAW. So the trope I’ve been flogging in this thread is that people are desperate to engage with everything except the documented facts in the case. But… was it unclear that I was expressing it in exasperation, sort of an anguished lament? Not like a “hold my beer” kind of situation? I mean, come on. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/288 "2023-09-21T03:19:56Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > You have exactly zero evidence for this statement. None. For all we know, this could be the schedule after every game. For all we know, this band schedule was approved by the school. We know nothing, at all, about what was allowed or not allowed. It’s true we don’t know the actual rules in play on this field in this case. I am making inferences based on my 4 years experience in high school marching band, and 4 years in college band, 2 of those in a leader/director role, plus many other years as a spectator. It would not even occur to me to haggle if police/security told me we needed to leave. It’s already late and we’re tired, nothing we’re doing is worth the energy of even thinking about arguing with a cop. None of this makes sense to me. Can you tell us on what experience you’re basing your statements? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/289 "2023-09-21T03:22:27Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > So the trope I’ve been flogging in this thread is that people are desperate to engage with everything except the documented facts in the case. The documented facts seem to be that the police battered a high school music director because he wouldn’t do whatever they told him to do. Do I have that right? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/290 "2023-09-21T03:26:49Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > The documented facts seem to be that the police battered a high school music director because he wouldn’t do whatever they told him to do. Do I have that right? In fact, no. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/291 "2023-09-21T03:28:38Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > In fact, no. Ok, which part of that is incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/292 "2023-09-21T03:37:21Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s true we don’t know the actual rules in play on this field in this case. I am making inferences based on my 4 years experience in high school marching band, and 4 years in college band, 2 of those in a leader/director role, plus many other years as a spectator. It would not even occur to me to haggle if police/security told me we needed to leave. It’s already late and we’re tired, nothing we’re doing is worth the energy of even thinking about arguing with a cop. None of this makes sense to me. > > Can you tell us on what experience you’re basing your statements? I am making inferences about the police actions based on my 8 years of experience as an officer and 33 years of supporting, advising and training international enforcement agencies. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/293 "2023-09-21T03:37:41Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Ok, which part of that is incorrect? This has been exhaustively asked and answered in this thread. You’re welcome to review it at your leisure, and I’m not interested in narrating it. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/294 "2023-09-21T03:51:52Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > I am making inferences about the police actions based on my 8 years of experience as an officer and 33 years of supporting, advising and training international enforcement agencies. I’m speaking to what I know of the duties/expectations of a band director, responding to a question of what was expected and normal in this type of environment. I don’t know what your prior experience tells you about this. Does it tell you that bands normally mill around indeterminately after a game, that they can refuse law enforcement’s commands to leave, that band directors are free to haggle with public safety officers about what they should and shouldn’t do? Tell us, your experience managing high school football games would be very enlightening here, I certainly haven’t done that as an LEO. And if we’re pulling years of service off the shelf, I would say as a former Army officer, I could maybe judge a peer’s actions in a particular threat environment in the most general terms, but I would not deign to second-guess a peer’s judgment in a threat environment where I was not present or briefed. I’m not making a high-school football game into a brigade-level movement or conducting an AAR, I’m simply saying I’m aware of the situational risks in a high-school football game, and I’m aware of what a high-school band director is able and expected to do, and arguing with the cops is never a part of it. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/295 "2023-09-21T03:52:58Z")
I have. And you know what? It seems to me like the police battered a high school music director for not doing what they told him to do. Still not seeing any contrary “facts” from you. Just a deeply ingrained desire to justify the police battering a high school music director for… reasons. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/296 "2023-09-21T03:53:31Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > for… reasons. yeah if that’s your takeaway, we’re done here, enjoy your evening. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/297 "2023-09-21T04:18:29Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > I am making inferences about the police actions based on my 8 years of experience as an officer and 33 years of supporting, advising and training international enforcement agencies. > > What do I win? I have to say I agree with you: it is mind-boggling, this idea that having been in marching band for X amount of years and then positions of authority for X more years is somehow relevant. I mean, heck, I was in marching band all through high school and college, too, and then the military after, but none of that seems to really change the underlying facts as I see them: a high school band director was just sort of doing his thing, directing the band, but some police officers on a power trip didn’t want to wait until the end of the last song, so when they told him to stop and he declined, the police escalated to a battery, and it seems like the only “defense” of their actions is “Well, you shouldn’t argue with the police.” Which is a touch too close to an endorsement of fascism for my liking. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/298 "2023-09-21T04:23:37Z")
Yup. Couldn’t agree more. Its not a complex story. I do hope the band director is OK. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/299 "2023-09-21T04:35:35Z")
This comment really pinged my radar: “Officer 1: “I got my troops” Troops? Seriously? You’re not a marine commando in charge of a brigade son. You’re a cop at a high school football game. This kind of language really helps clarify the mindset of the officer in question. “I got my troops.” Jesus. Jumped up, self important minor official who thinks he is in WWII with John Wayne. The band director, the band, hell - all the civilians around him are considered the enemy. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/300 "2023-09-21T04:42:24Z")
> **[Alabama band director tased after football game says 'no educator should ever...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/20/us/alabama-band-director-tased-speaks-out/index.html)** > > The Alabama band director who was shocked by a police stun gun and arrested after refusing to stop his band’s performance at a high school football game said the post-game songs had been arranged ahead of time and the whole experience has left him... ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216/301 "2023-09-21T05:20:28Z")
Or this > **[Alabama band director says he was trying to celebrate football team's win...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-band-director-speaks-tased-football-game-rcna107969)** > > Johnny Mims, the band director for Minor High School, said his band was doing a “5th Quarter” performance when police shocked him with a stun gun multiple times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-players-tried-to-leave-the-field-the-marching-band-refused-to-yield-what-details-have-been-concealed-the-way-they-tased-this-guy/990216.md?page=16)