# The Pledge of Allegiance **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643 "2015-02-26T05:09:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/41 "2015-03-01T09:17:42Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Well, I didn’t vote for her. Then feel free to go and live somewhere else ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/42 "2015-03-01T20:34:59Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Two things not generally known about the Pledge: > > 1. It had become hide-bound tradition by the 1930s; in fact, when it started in 1892 it was part of a commemoration of Columbus Day. > 2. Until the Nazi salute was widely known, the pledge salute was the same–right hand extended, upward, palm forward. After Hitler ’ s salute became wide known in the U.S., the right-hand - over - heart was substituted. > In any case, the Pledge and flag salute were never sanctioned by statute–local, State, or federal. That last part probably isn’t widely known because it [isn’t](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/4) [true](http://undergod.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000074). > [@bob\_2](#): > > Then feel free to go and live somewhere else [Whoosh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0). ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/43 "2015-03-01T20:56:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That last part probably isn’t widely known because it [isn’t](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/4) [true](http://undergod.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000074). > > [Whoosh](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0). Your answer is confusing and seems to contradict directly the information in your second link. (I found no information in your first link at all.) In fact, in the second link, it shows a group of American children, in 1942, giving what sure looks to me like the Nazi salute. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/44 "2015-03-01T21:08:46Z")
From the wiki article on the [Bellamy Salute](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute), named after Francis Bellamy, the author of the Pledge of Allegiance: > [@](#): > > The Bellamy salute is the salute described by Francis Bellamy, Christian socialist minister and author, to accompany the American Pledge of Allegiance, which he had authored. During the period when it was used with the Pledge of Allegiance, it was sometimes known as the “flag salute”. Later, during the 1920s and 1930s, Italian fascists and Nazis adopted a salute which had the same form, and which was derived from the Roman salute. This resulted in controversy over the use of the Bellamy salute in the United States. It was officially replaced by the hand-over-heart salute when Congress amended the Flag Code on December 22, 1942. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/45 "2015-03-01T21:39:52Z")
In case what Really Not All That Bright was referring to, was a statute about the Pledge of Allegiance, such statutes compelling the salute and pledge were declared unconstitutional by the U. S. Supreme Court in 1943, in\* West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette \* 319 U.S. 624. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/46 "2015-03-01T22:33:27Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > In case what Really Not All That Bright was referring to, was a statute about the Pledge of Allegiance, > such statutes compelling the salute and pledge were declared unconstitutional by the U. S. Supreme Court in 1943, in\* West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette \* 319 U.S. 624. You’ll note that you originally said that there were no federal or state statutes - [QUOTE=dougie\_monty] In any case, the Pledge and flag salute were never sanctioned by statute–local, State, or federal. [/QUOTE] you were shown to be incorrect. If you were to bother to read the second link - you’ll see what each state requires/mandates and that there are rules in place for children that do not wish to recite the pledge. While “Compelling” was indeed declared un-consitutional - this has NOTHING to do with the simple fact that there are both state and federal statutes related to the recitation of the pledge - whihci is what **Really not all that bright** was reffering to. When come back - get your facts straight. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/47 "2015-03-01T23:33:00Z")
Oh, all right. You’ll remember, however, that this practice had developed from plain tradition rather than being set down by federal, State, or local law. By the mid-1930s so many people regarded it as if the latter were the case. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/48 "2015-03-01T23:52:55Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Oh, all right. > You’ll remember, however, that this practice had developed from plain tradition rather than being set down by federal, State, or local law. By the mid-1930s so many people regarded it as if the latter were the case. And that has exactly what to do with your statement that [QUOTE=dougie\_monty] In any case, the Pledge and flag salute were never sanctioned by statute–local, State, or federal. [/QUOTE] ??? [QUOTE=[United States Flag Code - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code)] Prior to Flag Day, June 14, 1923, neither the federal government nor the states had official guidelines governing the display of the United States’ flag. On that date, the National Flag Code was constructed by representatives of over 68 organizations, under the auspices of the National Americanism Commission of the American Legion. The code drafted by that conference was printed by the national organization of the American Legion and given nationwide distribution. On June 22, 1942, the Code became Public Law 77-623; chapter 435.[23] Little had changed in the code since the Flag Day 1923 Conference. The most notable change was the removal of the Bellamy salute due to its similarities to the Hitler salute.[24] [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643/49 "2015-03-03T02:04:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > OP, if it wouldn’t be giving away more identifying information than you wish to share, could you tell us of this place where recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance by all attendees is mandatory at municipal meetings? A rural town’s chamber of commerce meeting, if i recall correct. i was there to do some mural painting, and the meeting was to discuss the town’s budget procured to fund said murals. they cooked a banquet for the 30 or so people there, we artists ate and ran. but the meeting opened with the pledge, as it would have been for any Chamber’s meeting (i reckon). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pledge-of-allegiance/713643.md?page=2)