# The Poker Hand Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 6, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425 "2005-12-06T23:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/21 "2005-12-13T22:30:58Z")
Yanno, **VarlosZ** , he also could have JT of spades. He has a lot of outs and it makes for a great semi-bluff, especially in an unraised pot where villain doesn’t figure you to be as strong as you are: > [@](#): > > ```auto > > pokenum -h ac 6c - js ts -- as qs 6d > Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing As Qs 6d > cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV > Ac 6c 586 59.19 404 40.81 0 0.00 0.592 > Js Ts 404 40.81 586 59.19 0 0.00 0.408 > > ``` > > [http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1402185](http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1402185) Against an unpaired Ace, JT of Spades is about a coinflip and such betting has a ton fo Folding Equity against a weak Ace. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/22 "2005-12-13T22:51:13Z")
> [@John\_Stamos'\_Left\_Ear](#): > > PokerStars No-Limit Hold’em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) > > Hero (t1605) > CO (t1750) > Button (t320) > SB (t3480) > BB (t1435) > UTG (t1485) > UTG+1 (t1410) > MP1 (t1035) > MP2 (t980) > > **Preflop:** Hero is MP3 with 5h, 6h. > _4 folds_, Hero raises to t150, _1 fold_, Button raises to t320, _2 folds_, Hero calls t170. > > **Flop:** (t715) 8d, 5s, 4s (2 players) > > **Turn:** (t715) 3h (2 players) > > **River:** (t715) 4c (2 players) > > **Final Pot:** t715 OK…what am I missing? I mean, besides the other guy’s cards and the resolution to the hand? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/23 "2005-12-13T23:01:26Z")
This sequence of events was amazing. This is four consecutive hands of a SNG. > [@](#): > > PokerStars No-Limit Hold’em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) [converter](http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi) > > Hero (t1385) > MP2 (t870) > CO (t2350) > Button (t1870) > SB (t3220) > BB (t1185) > UTG (t2620) > > **Preflop:** Hero is MP1 with 7s, 7s. > _1 fold_, Hero raises to t250, _4 folds_, BB calls t150. > > **Flop:** (t550) 8h, Qs, 6h (2 players) > BB checks, Hero bets t400, BB calls t400. > > **Turn:** (t1350) 8s (2 players) > BB bets t535 (All-In), Hero calls t535. > > **River:** (t2420) Ac (2 players, 1 all-in) > > **Final Pot:** t2420 > > Results below: > Hero has 7s 7h (two pair, eights and sevens). > BB has As 9d (two pair, aces and eights). > Outcome: BB wins t2420. I knew he didn’t have a Queen and that I was ahead. I figured he was on a flush draw the way he called and then pushed to get me off my hand. I called in a milisecond. He wasn’t on anything at all! Yet the Ace bails him out on the river. So then I am broke so I push two hands in a row. See how lucky I get: > [@](#): > > PokerStars No-Limit Hold’em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) [converter](http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi) > > Hero (t200) > MP1 (t870) > MP2 (t2350) > CO (t1870) > Button (t3170) > SB (t2420) > BB (t2620) > > **Preflop:** Hero is UTG with Kh, 7h. > Hero raises to t200, MP1 calls t200, _5 folds_. > > **Flop:** (t550) 8c, 5h, Kc (2 players) > > **Turn:** (t550) 3d (2 players) > > **River:** (t550) 8s (2 players) > > **Final Pot:** t550 > > Results below: > Hero has Kh 7h (two pair, kings and eights). > MP1 has 5s As (two pair, eights and fives). > Outcome: Hero wins t550. > [@](#): > > PokerStars No-Limit Hold’em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) [converter](http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi) > > Hero (t550) > UTG (t670) > MP1 (t2350) > MP2 (t1870) > CO (t3170) > Button (t2370) > SB (t2520) > > **Preflop:** Hero is BB with Jd, 9h. > _5 folds_, SB raises to t550, Hero calls t450 (All-In). > > **Flop:** (t1100) 2c, 2h, 9c (2 players, 1 all-in) > > **Turn:** (t1100) Jc (2 players, 1 all-in) > > **River:** (t1100) Js (2 players, 1 all-in) > > **Final Pot:** t1100 > > Results below: > Hero has Jd 9h (full house, jacks full of nines). > SB has Kc Qs (two pair, jacks and twos). > Outcome: Hero wins t1100. The next hand I get Aces and I decide to make a psychological play. I say in chat “I am just going to go all-in on every hand.” Here’s how that worked out: > [@](#): > > PokerStars No-Limit Hold’em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) [converter](http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi) > > Hero (t1100) > BB (t670) > UTG (t2350) > MP1 (t1870) > MP2 (t3170) > CO (t2370) > Button (t1970) > > **Preflop:** Hero is SB with Ac, As. > _3 folds_, CO calls t100, _1 fold_, Hero raises to t1100, _1 fold_, CO calls t1000. > > **Flop:** (t2300) Jc, 4h, 5c (2 players) > > **Turn:** (t2300) 5s (2 players) > > **River:** (t2300) Td (2 players) > > **Final Pot:** t2300 > > Results below:Hero has Ac As (two pair, aces and fives). > CO has 4s 4d (full house, fours full of fives). > Outcome: CO wins t2300. So I lost a hand that crippled me as a 79.55% favorite and then busted out of the tournament as an 81% favorite. In between I doubled up as a 40% favorite and a 35% favorite. That’s why it’s called gambling! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/24 "2005-12-13T23:02:41Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > OK…what am I missing? I mean, besides the other guy’s cards and the resolution to the hand? What he had wasn’t important, or the resolution. Knowing those things can cloud your responses. I want feedback as to how you feel I played the hand. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/25 "2005-12-13T23:28:41Z")
> [@John\_Stamos'\_Left\_Ear](#): > > What he had wasn’t important, or the resolution. Knowing those things can cloud your responses. I want feedback as to how you feel I played the hand. I thought the idea was to put the resolution in a spoiler box so we could comment on the hand and then see how it turned out. Oh well, anyway… I don’t like the raise. The button is so short that if he has anything remotely playable he’s going to play, so you’re at best looking at two overcards. Your chip position isn’t terribly secure, so why risk doubling up the short stack fooling around with a marginal hand? > [@JSLE](#): > > The next hand I get Aces and I decide to make a psychological play. I say in chat “I am just going to go all-in on every hand.” Here’s how that worked out Serves you right for trying to play cutesiepoo…sorry, I mean _psychological_. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/26 "2005-12-13T23:42:03Z")
> [@John\_Stamos'\_Left\_Ear](#): > > What he had wasn’t important, or the resolution. Knowing those things can cloud your responses. I want feedback as to how you feel I played the hand. I am not a big fan of the way you played this, but I may be more conservative than you are. If you get any callers you are almost certainly behind in the hand. And not by a little, you are probably two under cards. Of course you have suited connectors so you could end up chasing a straight or a flush which can pay off, or can be expensive. But chasers rarely prosper in the long run. So you could steal the blinds. Ok that’s fine if that happens, although I can’t see that as your intent with four to act ahead of you. You were pretty much obligated to call which is fine, I think. The short stack will play much more marginal hands than the others. But the initial bet is borderline IMHO. However, you did get head-to-head with probably two live cards suited connectors against probably someting like A something else, and you probably won with your pair, so it probably worked out. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/27 "2005-12-14T05:58:28Z")
> [@Stamos'](#): > > I’ll play any two cards getting those odds. Then I guarantee that you’re frequently taking the worst of it. You’ll flop two pair or better about 3.5% of the time. For the sake of argument, let’s say that your EV the other 96.5% of the time is 0 after the flop (I suspect it’s actually negative, but whatever), and thus -t45 overall. That means you need an _average_ profit of about t1240 when you do flop a monster just to break even, and that’s definitely not happening. > [@John\_Stamos'\_Left\_Ear](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > PartyPoker $1/$2 No Limit Hold’em, 10-handed. No read on Villain, my image is solid. > > > > UTG+1 (Villain) limps, MP2 limps, I limp in MP3 w/ Ac 6c. The blinds come along. 5 players to the flop. > > > > Flop ($10): As Qs 6d > > > > Check, check, Villain bets $6, fold. I raise to $18. Folds around to Villain, who reraises to $45. I fold. :eek: > > You have to put villain on a hand - specifically the hands that beat yours. He could have limped with Aces in the hopes of doing the reraise. A nice way to play Aces. > > Did he limp in early position with AQ or sixes? They do not seem likely. Most people won’t limp with AQ in early position, it’s a raise or fold proposition. People do limp with small pairs however that means the case six flopped which is also unlikely. > > This is why I make a raise preflop. You have late enough position to do this effectively. You can get better Aces to fold. You can take it down with a continuation bet. And more importantly for this specific hand, if villain reraises preflop, you can get away. > > As played, I think that villain’s range includes too many hands that you’re ahead of to lay it down. I will pay off cleverly-played Aces or a badly-played AQ and take notes. I will chalk up 66 to really bad luck and hope to spike an Ace on the redraw. I don’t know how familiar you are with 10-handed NL cash games as opposed to tournaments, but if you’re more used to the latter, that may be the source of the disagreement. In a tournament, yes, this is a hand you can play for all your chips (unless the stacks are very deep). Cash games are considerably tighter. For example, in this game AQ in early position is generally a limping hand (and with good reason), and set-mining is a major source of value. In this spot, AQ and 66 are Villain’s most likely holdings, with AK a reasonably close third. Ax, Q6, and a flush draw are very unlikely other possibilities. I think calling the flop reraise and continuing with the hand on the turn and river only if Villain keeps it cheap is reasonable, but I’m confident that the fold is also fine. Here’s why: I’m about to make a very expensive mistake. I’m going to pay off, to the tune of 90 Big Blinds, an _obvious_ AQ or 66 (he 3-bet the flop), or I’m going to fold the best hand to a flush draw (if he’s aggressive enough to 3-bet out of position with just a draw, he’s almost always going to fire big on the turn – the play makes no sense otherwise). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/28 "2005-12-17T23:21:41Z")
10-player STT, 9 players left, blinds 25-50. I don’t have the hand history (can’t believe I didn’t pull it up to look at it again) so this is reconstructed. It’s still fairly early (about 20 hands in). I’m the chip leader with about 3500, having doubled through the previous chip leader by showing down a J6 from the BB which flopped two pair against his AJos. I pick up KdQd in middle position. One caller ahead of me, I raise to 400. The button and the blinds both call. I don’t have much of a read on the blinds, but the button has gotten involved in some hands previously pre-flop, calling raises only to fold to post-flop bets when he misses. The flop comes King-high with two diamonds, giving me a pair of Kings with a Queen kicker, and four to the second-nut flush. The blinds check to me. What do you do? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/29 "2005-12-18T00:13:14Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > The flop comes King-high with two diamonds, giving me a pair of Kings with a Queen kicker, and four to the second-nut flush. I remembered the exact flop. It was KcJd9d, so I actually had Kings with the Queen kicker and a straight flush draw. If that makes any difference to your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/30 "2005-12-19T08:16:55Z")
The hand converters aren’t working right with this Empire hand, sorry. Think you could lay this down? $50 NL Texas Hold’em - Saturday, December 17, 16:45:40 EDT 2005 Table Table 36586 (Real Money) Seat 2 is the button Total number of players : 10 Seat 3 SB: Mac2041 ( $13.85 ) Seat 4 BB: Hero ( $35.09 ) Seat 5: lepa\_brena ( $40.92 ) Seat 6: tdpalermo ( $22.50 ) Seat 7: triwel ( $68.30 ) Seat 8: easymoneythx ( $102.35 ) Seat 9: Andrews72 ( $70.28 ) Seat 10: pskrt ( $50 ) Seat 1: josephfar ( $66 ) Seat 2: Pokerfox222 ( $156.40 ) Mac2041 posts small blind [$0.25]. Hero posts big blind [$0.50]. pskrt posts big blind [$0.50]. \*\* Dealing down cards \*\* Dealt to Hero [Jh Jd] lepa\_brena folds. tdpalermo folds. triwel folds. easymoneythx folds. Andrews72 calls [$0.50]. pskrt checks. josephfar calls [$0.50]. Pokerfox222 calls [$0.50]. Mac2041 calls [$0.25]. Hero raises [$3.50]. Andrews72 calls [$3.50]. pskrt folds. josephfar folds. Pokerfox222 folds. Mac2041 folds. \*\* Dealing Flop \*\* [6s, 3d, 8d] Hero bets [$10]. Andrews72 is all-In [$66.28] Hero is all-In [$21.09] \*\* Dealing Turn \*\* [7s] \*\* Dealing River \*\* [5h] Hero shows [Jh, Jd] a pair of jacks. Andrews72 shows [As, Ad] a pair of aces. Andrews72 wins $69.18 from the main pot with a pair of aces. For the record, I play tourneys almost exclusively, this was a small stakes ring game “test”. The limp/call from middle position basically blindsided me and I felt pot committed after my flop bet. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/31 "2005-12-19T08:35:30Z")
Maybe “pot comitted” isn’t the right wording… but with 40% of my stack in there getting 3 to 1 odds I couldn’t see folding there. Not much of a read on villian other than he was like most of the people at this table: weak… limping every hand with very weak holdings. I figured I was up against a pretty wide range of hands: medium pair, low pair with ace kicker, set, flush draw, or outright bluff. Would you have played it any differently? Did I fail to adjust my tourney strategy for a ring game? ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/32 "2005-12-19T09:01:05Z")
Sorry to triple post here… > [@Otto](#): > > I remembered the exact flop. It was KcJd9d, so I actually had Kings with the Queen kicker and a straight flush draw. If that makes any difference to your thoughts. > Reply With Quote Well my first thought was, 8 times the BB blind from MP with KdQd? That sounds really high… I try to vary my play but normally I’d go for a standard 3x raise there. The blinds aren’t worth stealing yet and there’s still 5 players left to act (including the limper). As it is you built a huge pot with a marginal hand… t1650 right? the limper folded? With the same action the 3x bet yields a pot of t650 which I think is better for this early with a drawing hand. After this flop _normally_ I’m making a value bet - around 1/2 the pot. I like both the hand and the draw so I don’t want to chase everyone out but at the same time I want to leave room to get out if it gets ugly. But it sounds like the other three already have half their stacks in and are looking at a 1600 pot vs a 400 stack. Given all of the above, I push all in. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425/33 "2005-12-20T00:45:42Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Hero shows [Jh, Jd] a pair of jacks. > Andrews72 shows [As, Ad] a pair of aces. > Andrews72 wins $69.18 from the main pot with a pair of aces. Andrews is lucky you had the JJ to make the raise and clear out the riff raff. Calling with the Aces in that position is courting disaster. Without your raise, in a multi-way pot and a board of 8-7-6-5-3 there’s no way someone hasn’t limped with a 9 or a 4 to crack those Aces like a rotten tooth on a jawbreaker. I would’ve been hard-pressed to put the guy on a higher PP and, depending on how he’d been playing, a set doesn’t seem likely. A lower PP or overcards is what strike me as most likely, with maybe an A8. > [@Eleusis](#): > > Well my first thought was, 8 times the BB blind from MP with KdQd? I was going by the pot, which was 125, and raising about 3x the pot. I wanted to try to get the button heads up so if he missed the flop he’d fold to a bet. > [@Eleusis](#): > > Given all of the above, I push all in. Which is what I did. The button called with about 1200 and the others folded. He had AKos for Kings with an A kicker. Turn was a black Q to give me two pair. River was a black Ten to give him an Ace-high straight to beat my King-high straight. Brutal roller coster hand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poker-hand-thread/334425.md?page=1)