# The police wanted to search my home. What?? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 18, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799 "2014-09-18T04:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/101 "2014-09-20T15:08:41Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > The thing is, there are so many laws that you can’t possibly be sure you’re not violating one. > > There are also things they can find that, though totally legal, might lead them to think that you are doing something illegal. > > Imagine, for example, that this drug dealer they were looking for had been somewhere at a particular time. During the search, they find a receipt that shows that you bought something near that location near that time. The receipt doesn’t indicate anything illegal, but it’s certainly not going to help in getting them to leave you alone. > > Since I don’t think anyone’s linked to it in this thread yet: [Don’t talk to police](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc). That was a great video. I watched all of it and a little bit of those, ‘how to get out of random DUI or DHS stops’ videos. My 2 cents is if you’re aggravating officers at stops or in the OP of this thread…you better be damn sure of your legal standing, it would sure help to be recording the encounter and if you feel things are getting out of hand\*…unless you’re prepared to go all the way…I suggest you comply with the officer\*\*. - By this I mean, let’s say you’re at a random checkpoint of some kind or you think the cop pulled you over because you have a ‘I hate bacon’ bumper sticker. You’re asserting your rights, you refuse to talk and you refuse to get out of the car because you don’t think he has probable cause…when he pulls out his flashlight, threatens to break the window and drag you out by your hair…it might be time to weigh whether or not this is all worth it. Or let’s say in the OP…let’s say the person in question had a 7 year old in the front seat without a child safety seat and the cops are threatening to call Child Services. \*\* I know that sounds horrible. It sounds like ‘roll over for the Gestapo’. I’m just saying use some common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/102 "2014-09-20T15:19:31Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Pretty much. NEVER answer interrogation questions from cops without a lawyer present. If you don’t like what you’re hearing, ask them if you are under arrest. If not, then leave. And you should not have let them search your car without probable cause. With six of them there, it must have been intimidating, but they know what your rights are and will back off if the bully tactics don’t work. I’ve posted before about harassment of pilots by DHS and DEA agents. I’ve posted links to stories of one pilot who was told that he was being held at gunpoint because he ‘fit a profile’. They wouldn’t tell him what the profile was, or how he fit it. The did tell him that it was suspicious that he was flying from west to east – from California. :dubious: Then there was the grandparents who were flying from Texas (I think) to someplace northeast to visit their grandkids, who were detained because they were ‘flying a known drug route’. This is bogus because pilots fly as short a route as possible. That’s kind of the _point_ of flying. I think for most people, standing for your rights is difficult when a government jet lands behind you and you are confronted with armour-clad Super Warriors holding machine guns at the ready. As an American, I object to the ‘If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear’ mentality that has been especially pronounced since the passing of the PATRIOT Act. AOPA has published [downloadable guidelines](http://www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/AOPA/Home/News/All%20News/2013/June/CBPGuidelinesKneeboard.pdf) on what to do if a pilot is stopped by law enforcement. One suggestion is: [quote] **Consider responding with the following statements:** [ul][li] “I do not consent to this search.”[/li][li] “If you remove or disassemble any part of this aircraft, including inspection plates, you may be rendering this aircraft unairworthy.”[/ul][/li][/quote] Last week [NPR said](http://www.npr.org/2014/09/17/349008566/unregulated-skies-keeping-watch-on-americas-vertical-borders?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=us): > [@](#): > > Earlier this year, private airplane owners complained publicly that gun-toting local and state police, excited by a hot tip from AMOC, were confronting bewildered, law-abiding pilots at general aviation airports. > > Crowder acknowledges changes were necessary. > > “I think it’s clear from rational observation that there’ve been a few events where there was a stronger response than we would have wanted,” he says. > > A spokesman for the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association says police encounters at airports have all but stopped since they complained. Crowder confirms AMOC is interdicting fewer private flights these days, with better results — 28 stops so far this fiscal year, leading to 11 arrests, nine of them criminal. So the situation seems to be getting better. But we still need to end the abuses of power displayed by many law enforcement agencies. . ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/103 "2014-09-20T15:22:56Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > - By this I mean, let’s say you’re at a random checkpoint of some kind or you think the cop pulled you over because you have a ‘I hate bacon’ bumper sticker. You’re asserting your rights, you refuse to talk and you refuse to get out of the car because you don’t think he has probable cause…when he pulls out his flashlight, threatens to break the window and drag you out by your hair…it might be time to weigh whether or not this is all worth it. NO PC is needed to order you out, ever hear of Pennsylvania v. Mimms. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/104 "2014-09-20T15:25:36Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Fernandez v. California clarified an open question in Georgia v. Randolph. > [@lawbuff](#): > > You might find an answer in Minnesota v. Carter. Not all of us are law buffs. 🙂 Could you expound a bit on these? ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/105 "2014-09-20T15:33:57Z")
Minnesota v. Carter (guest expectation of privacy). > **[MINNESOTA v. CARTER, 525 U.S. 83 (1998) | FindLaw](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-supreme-court/525/83.html)** > > Case opinion for US Supreme Court MINNESOTA v. CARTER. Read the Court's full decision on FindLaw. Fernandez v. California, citing Randolph, who has authority to permit home entry to search by police. > **[FERNANDEZ v. CALIFORNIA](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/12-7822)** ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/106 "2014-09-20T15:37:52Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > NO PC is needed to order you out, ever hear of Pennsylvania v. Mimms. I have now. That was a very interesting read, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/107 "2014-09-20T16:19:49Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I have now. That was a very interesting read, thank you. You are welcome. I do not know of any state in which their Constitution affords greater protection in this area, that is, need at least a RS or such to order a driver out. Now concerning Maryland v. Wilson, I have heard of some states under their Constitutions not permitting police to order a passenger out without cause, even though when a car is stopped all passengers are seized for the possibility of standing in an unlawful pull over, Brendlin v. California. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/108 "2014-09-20T17:21:09Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > My 2 cents is if you’re aggravating officers at stops or in the OP of this thread…you better be damn sure of your legal standing, it would sure help to be recording the encounter and if you feel things are getting out of hand\*…unless you’re prepared to go all the way…I suggest you comply with the officer\*\*. Is recording the police without their consent legal in all states ? There was a case in Maryland where a motorcyclist was speeding and stopped by an off duty cop in an umarked car and plain clothes who confronted him at gunpoint. The cyclist had a helmet cam on and later posted the video to Youtube. [He was charged for illegal taping](http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Graber): > [@](#): > > **Incident** > > In March, 2010, Graber was speeding on his motorcycle, swerving across traffic lanes, and did at least one wheelie on Interstate 95 while recording with a video camera on his helmet. He was cut off by an unmarked gray sedan. A man in jeans and a sweatshirt exited the vehicle and with gun drawn commanded Graber to get off his motorcycle. The man, Maryland State Trooper Joseph D. Uhler dressed in plainclothes, then identified himself as “state police”, and cited Graber with a moving violation for 80 mph in a 65 mph zone. Uhler’s badge, which was located on his belt, was not visible in the video.[1][2] > > On March 10, Graber posted the video of the encounter on YouTube. Prosecutors obtained a grand jury indictment charging Graber with violation of Maryland wiretap laws for audio recording of the officer without his consent.[1][2][3] > > On April 8, police searched Graber’s residence and seized the camera, thumb drives, external hard drives, and four computers. Graber was not arrested at that time because he had just had gall bladder surgery. When he turned himself in a week later he was arrested and spent 26 hours in jail.[1][2][3] > > On June 1, he was arraigned in Harford County Circuit Court in Bel Air. He was charged with four felonies and faced a maximum of 16 years in prison if convicted on all charges.[1][2][3] > > **Outcome** > > On July 7, 2010, the Maryland Attorney General Douglas Gansler released an opinion advising a state legislator that, contrary to the claims of Harford County State’s Attorney Joseph Cassilly, a traffic stop is not an instance where a police officer can claim a reasonable expectation of privacy.[5] > > On September 27, 2010, criminal charges against Graber were dropped.[6] The court threw out the charge of “recording illegal activity” on the grounds that the law was unconstitutional, noting that “the video taping of public events is protected under the First Amendment.”[6] The judge ruled that Maryland’s wire tap law does not prohibit recording of voice or sound in areas where privacy cannot be expected and that a police officer on a traffic stop has no legal expectation of privacy.[6] Overall, Harford County Circuit Court Judge Emory A Plitt Jr. dismissed four of the seven charges filed against Anthony Graber, leaving only traffic code violations. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/109 "2014-09-20T17:35:36Z")
I went to the Philo T Farnsworth School of Law (i.e., watched multiple legal dramas on TV) and in one course (“The Good Wife”) learned that recording a police stop may be illegal if you capture audio but not if you capture video only. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/110 "2014-09-21T08:20:52Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The mom gave consent to search his bedroom. Wasn’t there a recent case about whether someone living in the house could consent to a search of a housemate’s “private” area? This is really minor and not really pertinent to my OP, but one of the things that I find with message boards is that many do not read the thread entirely. I’ve mentioned more than once that I’m not a male. Further, my mom did not consent to my room being searched, just hers. After going on and on about the volumes of drugs going through my house, all they did was look in her room and shine a flashlight under her bed. That was it. Not the closet, not the drawers… Upon which every thing was ok. I was told I could go home that all was totally fine now. The K-9 unit at my home was not used. As for how they found me at the gym: the DEA guy said they followed me to the gym and waited for me. He also said they had been watching me for some time now. This I really don’t believe at all. My neighborhood (neighbors excepted) is very quiet. There are RARELY cars parked on the street. He would have had to be in someone’s home? Any stakeout of my home would show that we rarely get any visitors or deliveries (Amazon aside, that is). Long story short, I’ve spoken with an attorney. Thank you all for your insight. This experience has been an eye opener, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/111 "2014-09-21T08:25:10Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > That was a great video. I watched all of it and a little bit of those, ‘how to get out of random DUI or DHS stops’ videos. > > My 2 cents is if you’re aggravating officers at stops or in the OP of this thread…you better be damn sure of your legal standing, it would sure help to be recording the encounter and if you feel things are getting out of hand\*…unless you’re prepared to go all the way…I suggest you comply with the officer\*\*. > > - By this I mean, let’s say you’re at a random checkpoint of some kind or you think the cop pulled you over because you have a ‘I hate bacon’ bumper sticker. You’re asserting your rights, you refuse to talk and you refuse to get out of the car because you don’t think he has probable cause…when he pulls out his flashlight, threatens to break the window and drag you out by your hair…it might be time to weigh whether or not this is all worth it. Or let’s say in the OP…let’s say the person in question had a 7 year old in the front seat without a child safety seat and the cops are threatening to call Child Services. > > \*\* I know that sounds horrible. It sounds like ‘roll over for the Gestapo’. I’m just saying use some common sense. My biggest fear was that they would either haul me off to the station for endless questioning or worse, that they would do the same thing again, except not at Y’s parking lot, but at her school. I would be really, really mortified by that. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/112 "2014-09-21T14:02:55Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Well, you may be detained under RS, and told you are being detained but not arrested, try to leave and you might get arrested. Well sure, but a person still should not answer any questions without legal counsel. The Miranda Warning says that anything you say can be used _against_ you. It says nothing about that information being used in your favor. As for ‘endless questioning’, unless you are being detained or are under arrest, you can leave whenever you wish. Once you demand a lawyer, the questioning stops. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/113 "2014-09-21T14:06:28Z")
> [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > I was at the Y this evening. As I was going home, walking to my car, a guy in a mustang pulled up and asked for me by name and said he wanted to talk to me. > [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > Really, the only thing I can possibly think is a wrong address: they meant my neighbors. If the cop knew your name without asking you for it, how could he have mistaken you for a neighbor? ---
**Author:** ![MrsTime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@MrsTime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrsTime)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/114 "2014-09-21T14:54:17Z")
> [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > Was it legal to keep me from calling my brother? Not if your brother is a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/115 "2014-09-21T18:26:14Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > If the cop knew your name without asking you for it, how could he have mistaken you for a neighbor? Because if someone just gave him an address, it’s incredibly easy for the police to look to see who owns the house. Anyone can do that, really. **MrsTime** , but I wasn’t under arrest. Doesn’t that make a difference? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/116 "2014-09-22T16:24:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I often wonder if some policemen carry about bits of incriminating material to “find” in someone’s car or home. Some few do. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/117 "2014-09-22T16:35:01Z")
> [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > Further, my mom did not consent to my room being searched, just hers. . Actually, once you let them into the house, it’s pretty wide open. YMMV, IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/118 "2014-09-22T17:01:12Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Well, you may be detained under RS, and told you are being detained but not arrested, try to leave and you might get arrested. That’s why you should ask, “Am I free to go?” rather than “Am I under arrest?”. You can be legally detained temporarily for various reasons even though you aren’t under arrest. If a cop pulls you over in traffic he’s detained you, you aren’t free to drive away, but he’s not going to arrest you (unless you’ve got a warrant out), he’s going to give you a ticket. You can also be detained just walking down the street, even though you aren’t arrested, or aren’t arrested yet. Cops do like to maintain ambiguity about whether they’ve detained you or not, they’d prefer to be able to say in court that you cooperated voluntarily rather than have to come up with a legal justification for detaining you. So asking if you’re free to go forces the cop to either detain you for a legally justifiable reason, or to let you go. Lots of times they want to question you or find out what’s going on before you leave, but they don’t have a legally justifiable reason to detain you, so they like to give the false impression that you’re not allowed to leave even though in court they could truthfully say that you weren’t detained. Remember that cops can ask you to stay put, or ask you for your ID, or ask you questions, just like I could walk up to you and ask you not to leave, who you are, what you’re doing around here, and so on. And you can answer my questions or tell me to fuck off, as you choose. The difference between me and a cop is that the cop also has the power to compel you to obey, in certain circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/119 "2014-09-22T17:02:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually, once you let them into the house, it’s pretty wide open. YMMV, IANAL. I realize this. I was just correcting someone’s post for clarification. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799/120 "2014-09-23T14:37:48Z")
> [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](#): > > My biggest fear was that they would either haul me off to the station for endless questioning or worse, that they would do the same thing again, except not at Y’s parking lot, but at her school. I would be really, really mortified by that. Taking you in INvoluntarily is an arrest, period, and must be supported by PC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-police-wanted-to-search-my-home-what/698799.md?page=7)