# The political tone is just getting worse and worse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018 "2013-04-18T07:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/1 "2013-04-18T07:44:25Z")
Some pretty strong words from our President. Shameful day, calling lobbyists liars. This comes from the leader of the Free Word? Delivered from the Rose Garden? I could understand comments like that from posters on the SDMB or other boards. Of course Obama and Biden are disappointed. But words like that shouldn’t be expressed by a sitting President. Someone that the world’s leaders listen to. There’s a dignity to the office. A decorum that must be observed. The President stands above the mud slinging and dirtiness of politics. At least he should in public. What he says in private is a whole different thing. 😛 I’ve noticed Obama’s tone has changed in the last few months. There’s much more of a do this or else attitude. “I’m the President and you must pass my gun control package.” I’ve felt very uncomfortable seeing the Newtown families used as political pawns. They were flown in this week just to pressure Congress. For me that’s just a little too heavy handed. Arm twisting in politics can only go so far. Obama’s hard stand on the budget and Sequestration is another example. I’m just not seeing leadership. It’s my way or the highway isn’t leadership. The President is one guy steering a ship with 100 Senators and 435 Congressman. There’s got to be give and take by everyone. Right now I’m seeing blame in both partys. I’ve lived under eight Presidential Administrations. Todays rhetoric from our President is a new low. \*\*Please, can we avoid another long thread on gun control?[/B] There’s several already on the SDMB. This thread is for comments on how Congress and the President are failing to work together. The Sequestration and gun control are just two recent examples. There’s so many big issues coming up that must be worked out. I’m concerned that Obama has lost a lot of credibility as a leader. Will any of his legislation get passed? [http://firstread.nbcnews.com/\_news/2013/04/17/17795377-in-blow-to-gun-control-backers-background-check-compromise-falls-6-votes-short?lite](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/17/17795377-in-blow-to-gun-control-backers-background-check-compromise-falls-6-votes-short?lite) > [@](#): > > Speaking in the Rose Garden after the vote, a visibly frustrated Obama decried the defeat of the measure as parents of victims of last year’s Newtown school shootings and former congresswoman Gabby Giffords looked on. > > “All in all, this was a pretty shameful day for Washington,” he said sternly, urging backers of gun control to continue the fight. > > Slamming critics who said that victims were used as “props,” Obama said that their voices and experiences should have been welcomed, adding that gun lobbyists “willfully lied” about the consequences of the background check measure. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/2 "2013-04-18T07:52:03Z")
I don’t follow this sort of thing but from what I heard, the polling is something like 90% in favor of expanded background checks and yet it gets voted down by the Senate? If that’s not a time for ‘strong language’ I’m not sure what you reserve it for. There’s obviously a disconnect here of sort. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/3 "2013-04-18T08:05:26Z")
Gallop did a poll on issues that Americans were most interested in. The Economy and the Deficit were the top two issues. Dissatisfaction with government was third and unemployment fourth. > **[Debt, Gov't Dysfunction Rise to Top of Americans' Issue List](https://news.gallup.com/poll/159830/debt-gov-dysfunction-rise-top-americans-issue-list.aspx)** > > Americans' concerns about the federal budget deficit and government dysfunction rose high enough in January to knock unemployment out of the top two slots on Gallup's "most important problem" list for the first time since 2009. Immigration and gun control are way, way down in that list. Yet that’s whats currently occupying Washington’s time. I lost count of how many stops and speeches Obama made for gun control in the past two weeks. We have a powder keg simmering in N. Korea and he’s flying around doing that. There’s a disconnect between the American public’s concerns and Washington. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/4 "2013-04-18T08:09:13Z")
So does that justify the NRA lying about expanded background checks being equivalent to a national gun registry? Sounds like you’re changing the subject. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/5 "2013-04-18T08:15:46Z")
The thread is about Washington and leadership. The comments that Obama made today were just not appropriate for a Rose Garden speech. That kind of strong language is for private conversations. I wanted to see him stand above this. Express regret that it didn’t pass and maybe reintroduce a new package on gun control later. This issue won’t be going away anytime soon. The President lost one political battle. He still has almost three more years. I don’t know if the NRA lied or exaggerated. But the members of Congress aren’t stupid. They aren’t going to listen to any lobbyist that they don’t respect. I know that I wouldn’t respect someone’s position if it was based on lies. Flat out lying would poison the well for any lobby group. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/6 "2013-04-18T08:25:31Z")
You don’t imagine his comments were directed at congress do you? The NRA’s lies were meant to fuel the fears of voters who in turn put pressure on congress. His comments were directed at the public. I’m sure this has to be obvious. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/7 "2013-04-18T08:31:16Z")
I’m not sure who the comments were directed at. Obama just seemed bitter and angry. Google “Obama bitter” there’s a lot of hits. He’s blaming the NRA for sure and perhaps some members of Congress? I can’t separate his anger from political maneuvering at this point. That’s why these guys use speech writers. Publicly they express regret that the bill didn’t pass and we’ll try again. Stay on message and be positive. Most speeches are crafted that way. It filters out any raw emotion from the political figure. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/8 "2013-04-18T08:39:08Z")
Obama’s Three Fateful Leadership Tests is an interesting article from Bloomberg. [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-17/obama-s-three-fateful-leadership-tests.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-17/obama-s-three-fateful-leadership-tests.html) This is a good example of the importance of staying positive and on message. Using the Bully Pulpit effectively. YMMV but to me expressing anger and bitterness like Obama did was a step backward. It cost him points in leadership. We need a strong President. There’s a lot of big challenges ahead and Obama still has a lot of time. I want to see him become more effective. > [@](#): > > The core question of presidential politics is how to manage a Congress paralyzed by the bitter disagreements between the two parties. How does a president get anything through it? Right now, the Obama administration is trying to pass gun-control legislation, immigration reform and a new budget, and the White House has opted for a very different leadership approach in each case. > > Perhaps the most common view of presidential power is that it’s all about the bully pulpit. If the president just delivers the right speeches, in the right places, to the right audiences, he can mobilize the American public to break the gridlock in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/9 "2013-04-18T09:28:58Z")
Lobbyists lie for a living, no matter the cause nor employer. Put your big-boy pants on, & face the truth folks. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/10 "2013-04-18T10:09:20Z")
You seem very concerned about Obama’s behavior, **aceplace57** , whereas I tend to see his new backbone as a sign of him finally accepting that the Republicans in Congress will not, and never intend to, act in good faith with regard to any “compromises”. They’ve shown from day one of Obama’s first term that they will not work with him no matter what and no matter how much he offers in return, so why should he keep trying to woo them? The soft approach got him nowhere; now he’s trying a different tack. I also note that despite you saying > [@](#): > > There’s got to be give and take by everyone. Right now I’m seeing blame in both partys. and > [@](#): > > This thread is for comments on how Congress and the President are failing to work together. all your criticism is aimed at Obama, with virtually nothing about Congress’s role in this political drama other than the above. Again, your concern about Obama is noted, but what about the other guys? A thread that says “There’s blame on both sides but really it’s all Obama’s fault” makes me wonder what your real point is. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/11 "2013-04-18T10:36:10Z")
Congress actually surprised me this time. They did come together with a bipartisan bill. The vote was surprisingly close. Especially considering that any gun control bill had zero chance of getting out of committee before Sandy Hook. They made considerable progress on this issue. The NRA may regret opposing the bipartisan bill. The next one that comes up in Congress may be even more restrictive and harder to defeat. That’s why Obama’s negative tone surprised me. He lost one battle; not the war. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/12 "2013-04-18T10:43:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve felt very uncomfortable seeing the Newtown families used as political pawns. They were flown in this week just to pressure Congress. For me that’s just a little too heavy handed. I’ve felt very uncomfortable seeing the Newtown families told they shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinion. They are adults and calling them “pawns” is an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/13 "2013-04-18T10:49:12Z")
I don’t get a vote here, so maybe my opinion doesn’t matter. I think he made excellent points about minority groups with very loud opinions drowning out the rest of the American people and holding elected representatives hostage because those guys just want to get reelected. The system is broken if the people in charge aren’t speaking for the people they represent. The take-home message for me, at least, was that we need to be louder about what we want our representatives to vote for, when there’s a cause that matters to us. I saw more frustration than bitterness. Like, put your money where your mouth is, people - if 90% of us want something, why aren’t we out there making it clear to our reps? Not that I think any other country’s system is necessarily better or less broken, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![conservativerod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f9b8f/32.png) [@conservativerod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conservativerod)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/14 "2013-04-18T11:43:06Z")
Dignity. Lol! This lying opportunist can’t spell dignity. He lied yesterday as he does everyday. He put on a show but even Dems know they cannot go against their people & hope to get re-elected. That is the real world. But Maobama can lie & lie successfully since the lapdog media has his back completely. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/15 "2013-04-18T12:03:28Z")
Frankly, I’m kinda stoked that he’s putting decorum aside and starting to tell it like it is. About time. The Senate knuckled under to NRA pressure, and if they were lied to, it’s about time to start calling the liars liars. Publicly. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/16 "2013-04-18T12:15:56Z")
There has never been a better time for outrage. I’m reminded of the old Bob Dylan lyric: “Oh but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears, bury the rag deep in your face for now’s the time for your tears.” Apparently the murders of schoolchildren isn’t enough to move Congress to do anything about guns. They’re too much in debt to the gun manufacturers, their toadies that run the NRA, and the ignorant masses who hold NRA membership. Can’t think about assault weapons bans, can’t bother to limit the size of magazines, can’t even make it harder for psychopaths to buy guns. All that matters is keeping the cash rolling in for the gun makers, the NRA, and their stooges in Congress. Doesn’t matter if something is supported by 90% of the public. Doesn’t matter if a majority of the Senate votes for it- the Republican tyranny of the minority dictates that each and every vote, each and every appointment gets 60 votes to pass. The battle is lost, but the war goes on. What the just side lacks in money, it makes up for in numbers. Soon, if not already, being against gun control will be the recipe for certain electoral defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/17 "2013-04-18T13:07:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Congress actually surprised me this time. They did come together with a bipartisan bill. The vote was surprisingly close. A majority supported the bill. This used to mean success. Your last sentence shows you would probably never seriously criticize congress over this failure or any other legislative failure. > [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s why Obama’s negative tone surprised me. He lost one battle; not the war. The war is over. No bill with any serious effect on gun control can possibly pass. The war is over for any particular topic while the Senate has 41+ Republicans in it. The reason why immigration is at the forefront is because Republicans fear that demographic realities require them to pass something. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/18 "2013-04-18T13:10:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Shameful day, calling lobbyists liars. … > > I’ve felt very uncomfortable seeing the Newtown families used as political pawns. They were flown in this week just to pressure Congress. Do you not see any irony in that you’re more concerned for the feelings of a lobbying organization than you are the genuine positions of people who have lost loved ones and want to see the law changed? I’d imagine that you’d have some pretty strong words if anyone who voted down the bill would have been called “pawns of the gun lobby.” And yet, you freely call victims of gun violence “pawns” yourself. There is a problem with the tone in Washington, but I think you’re burying the lede. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/19 "2013-04-18T13:31:35Z")
I applaud the recent change in the political tone in Washington. It’s about time Democrats grew a backbone and started calling out Republicans as the liars they are. President Obama is showing great leadership in changing the largely passive acceptance by Democrats when the Republican minority imposes its will on the majority. It’s about goddamn time, I look forward to more plain speech by the President and other Democrats about the destructive policies of conservatism as practiced by the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/20 "2013-04-18T13:47:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Some pretty strong words from our President. Shameful day, calling lobbyists liars. This comes from the leader of the Free Word? Delivered from the Rose Garden? Three years ago a lot of Republicans said Obama’s health care bill was going to set up government-run panels that would murder people. > [@](#): > > There’s a dignity to the office. A decorum that must be observed. Tell it to the Congressman who stood up and called Obama a liar in the middle of the State of the Union address. > [@](#): > > I’m the President and you must pass my gun control package." It’s not his gun control package. His gun control package has no chance of passing. The bill that got killed yesterday was a much smaller proposal that would have expanded background check provisions, which pretty much everybody (outside of Congress) agrees are a good idea regardless of what happens with other gun laws. > [@](#): > > Obama’s hard stand on the budget and Sequestration is another example. How dare he have a position on the issue! That’s not leadership! And he’s offered to make large cuts in programs he and his party and constituents strongly support. > [@](#): > > There’s got to be give and take by everyone. Yes, and the Republican position on essentially every issue over the last few years has been “give us everything we want and then we’ll talk.” Obama is responding to that in pretty much the only way he can, and by that I mean addressing the public- since he’s pretty popular and Congress is not. > [@](#): > > Will any of his legislation get passed? I don’t think you understand why legislation is getting passed or not. It has nothing to do with Obama’s “credibility as a leader.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018.md?page=2)