# The political tone is just getting worse and worse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018 "2013-04-18T07:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/61 "2013-04-18T19:34:56Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Being negative isn’t inherent’y wrong- it becomes a problem when it is unfounded and becomes character assassination. Like accusing his opponents of lying? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/62 "2013-04-18T19:43:18Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > 😃 > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Well given that it was a filibuster vote with the odds stacked in the obstructionists favor, it would be more accurate to say that our side won but failed to beat the spread. See above, please. Take the argument over the gun control issue and everything associated with it to a new thread. This discussion is just about the tone in government. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/63 "2013-04-18T19:46:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Like accusing his opponents of lying? How is it character assassination to speak the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/64 "2013-04-18T19:50:19Z")
I do find it funny to be lectured on maturity by being insulted with a fucking World of Warcraft meme. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/65 "2013-04-18T19:53:27Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > How is it character assassination to speak the truth? Did the ACLU lie? Because the NRA was riffing off their own views of what the bill did: > **[EXCLUSIVE: ACLU says Reid’s gun legislation could threaten privacy rights,...](https://dailycaller.com/2013/04/04/exclusive-aclu-says-reids-gun-legislation-could-threaten-privacy-rights-civil-liberties/)** > > The American Civil Liberties Union now says it's among those who have The real issue here is that politicians decided to get cute, got called on it, and then said, “Who us? We wouldn’t dream of creating a national gun registry! Whoever would suggest such a thing are obviously liars!” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/66 "2013-04-18T19:54:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Like accusing his opponents of lying? Sure- it is not inappropriate to accuse someone of lying when they have lied and you have concrete examples (such as NRA claiming there was going to be a gun registry, or the death panel allegations when ACA was first being discussed). He accused them of lying and manipulating the message and had specific examples. That is not a tantrum- it is a specific and he expressed justifiable frustration and anger over it. Now, if the NRA or others disputes his allegations they can present evidence he is wrong and they wouldn’t be wrong for doing so either. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/67 "2013-04-18T20:00:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The real issue here is that politicians decided to get cute, got called on it, and then said, “Who us? We wouldn’t dream of creating a national gun registry! Whoever would suggest such a thing are obviously liars!” How many times is this piece of drivel going to be repeated as truth. You’ve bought the NRA bullshit, hook, line and sinker. Personally the one thing about the expanded background checks bill that rubbed me the wrong way is that it specifically \*didn’t \*allow for a national registry - which I think would be a keen idea. It’s right in the wording of the bill that any and all records must be destroyed once a background check is passed. Does that mean something else in whatever language you’re interpreting it in? Or do you just know what they _really, really_ mean because you can delve deep in the hearts of those mean ol’ Democrats who want to melt down every gun on the planet twice? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/68 "2013-04-18T20:08:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Did the ACLU lie? Because the NRA was riffing off their own views of what the bill did: Again, _that’s a different bill_. [The NRA said Manchin-Toomey was a step toward a national registry](http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/politics/senate-guns-vote/index.html), and since there was nothing about that in the bill, that was an example of making stuff up to mislead people or manipulate people into voting against it. Or if you will, lying. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/69 "2013-04-18T20:23:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This discussion is just about the tone in government. And while we’re talking about tone in government, how about some righteous condemnation for exploiting the victims of Sandy Hook? Those parents were there during the debate purely as an appeal to emotion as opposed to reason. Emotional responses to recent events are not a sound basis for legislation. This was a crass attempt at manipulation for political gain. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/70 "2013-04-18T20:25:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Those parents were there during the debate purely as an appeal to emotion as opposed to reason. Did they not want to be there? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/71 "2013-04-18T20:56:01Z")
Seriously? What he’s doing, that is the leadership I want to see from him. Maybe it’d be more effective to twist arms and break bones behind the scenes, but he has a pulpit and he’s using it. But then, I’m a Harry Truman fan. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/72 "2013-04-18T21:27:47Z")
Okay, fair enough. But in regards to the lying accusation, has the President and supporters of gun control been 100% honest? I’ve noticed they use the completely false term “assault weapons” regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/73 "2013-04-18T22:07:58Z")
I recognize that that’s a vague term some people don’t like, but they’re not the only ones who use it, and no, that’s not the same as flatly lying about the contents of a bill. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/74 "2013-04-18T22:14:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve felt very uncomfortable seeing the Newtown families used as political pawns. They were flown in this week just to pressure Congress. Well, they’re not there under subpoena, are they? They would not be there if they were not eager to participate. They’re not being exploited, they’re enjoying an opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/75 "2013-04-18T22:17:58Z")
For an actual instance of “used,” see [“Snowflake Babies.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_babies) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/76 "2013-04-18T22:23:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, they’re not there under subpoena, are they? They would not be there if they were not eager to participate. They’re not being exploited, they’re enjoying an opportunity. Right. The words people are using here - pawns, props, exploited - are wrong and demeaning, and if I were one of those families I’d be insulted by that kind of wording. These people are willing participants. They’re allowed to be involved in this debate just like everyone else, and they’ve chosen to use their celebrity or influence or whatever you want to call it in a particular way. There’s a strong emotional component to that and it’s fair to keep that in mind, but they’re making a choice and they’re allowed to do so. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/77 "2013-04-18T22:36:03Z")
Interesting thing about this was that all the NRA had to do to beat the bill was threaten to score it. The President was railing against true grassroots power, but he couldn’t say that. So he had to make it seem like it was about lying or big money or whatever. Anything but having to recognize that the NRA can make Congress dance for them simply by warning them they will score votes they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/78 "2013-04-18T22:42:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The President was railing against true grassroots power You can’t call it “true grassroots power” when a powerful lobby kills a bill that a substantial majority of people supports. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/79 "2013-04-18T23:09:18Z")
You can if all they have to do is SCORE it, because voters that actually vote pay attention to NRA ratings. Scoring involves no contributions, and doesn’t matter if voters don’t care about the scoring. No organization in the country, not even unions, can sway votes with simple scoring the way the NRA can. That’s grassroots power that all the other organizations can only dream of. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/80 "2013-04-18T23:12:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You can if all they have to do is SCORE it, because voters that actually vote pay attention to NRA ratings. > > Scoring involves no contributions, and doesn’t matter if voters don’t care about the scoring. No organization in the country, not even unions, can sway votes with simple scoring the way the NRA can. That’s grassroots power that all the other organizations can only dream of. You have a different definition of grassroots than I do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018.md?page=5)