# The political tone is just getting worse and worse. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018 "2013-04-18T07:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/101 "2013-04-19T13:33:14Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Don’t the majority of gun owners (something north of 80% I heard) support expanded background checks? Didn’t the NRA itself speak in favor of them not too many years ago? I don’t understand how the NRA claim to represent anyone but the most extreme elements in its own organization. Well and the gun manufacturers. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A super majority of NRA members [support universal background checks.](http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/apr/04/lee-leffingwell/lee-leffingwell-says-polls-show-90-percent-america/) So the NRA does not support the views of its members. It is a rogue lobbyist, at the beck and call of gun manufacturers. First of all I trust the NRA to know the desires of it’s members more than outside polling groups. I’m an NRA member and at least once a year I get questionnaires to fill out with my views on various gun issues. Secondly, the bill was 800 pages long. It wasn’t just a straight up choice between background checks and no background checks. It’s more complicated than that. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the NRA support a bill that was written differently, such as having the requirements and cost of a FFL go down so that more private citizens could become gun dealers and thus do background checks. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/102 "2013-04-19T13:37:43Z")
Here is a [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/history-lesson-the-nras-support-for-expanded-background-checks/2013/04/18/fb2ee58e-a875-11e2-8302-3c7e0ea97057_blog.html) story on the history of NRA background checks. > [@](#): > > On a very technical level, Obama’s statement is correct: LaPierre did call for some form of expanded background checks. > Yet at the same time the NRA worked hard to defeat the proposals advanced by President Clinton and other Democrats, just as it has worked hard to defeat Obama’s proposals this year. The net result is the same: stalemate and victory for the NRA. > For reasons of tactics, it serves Obama’s interests to suggest that the NRA once was open to an idea it now opposes. But the political reality is quite different. One suspects that if Obama had been in Clinton’s shoes in 1999, he also would not have considered LaPierre’s statement to be indicative of “support” for expanded background checks. > Obama’s comments don’t really merit a Pinocchio, given the NRA’s statements that its position has changed, but neither does it qualify for a Geppetto. This history lesson shows that, in politics, the words are sometimes much less important than the actions taken for or against legislation. It’s an oversimplification to say the NRA used to be for background checks and is now against them. The NRA isn’t opposed to background checks generally speaking, but they do want them done a certain way. They oppose or support bills based on what’s in them. It’s not as simple as a pro-background check or anti-background check binary choice. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/103 "2013-04-19T13:52:49Z")
I never heard of a possible national gun registry before. Sounds like an excellent idea. Executive order, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/104 "2013-04-19T14:10:55Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That’s a good explanation of how but not why. > > Why are there two distinct “sides” - i.e. The whole Red State / Blue State thing that didn’t exist 15 years ago? Well, a couple of decades ago people were talking about a culture war, which sounds worse than red vs. blue. But to the actual question: a big part of this is the Internet. Local politics is national now, and there’s much more pressure toward party uniformity on a federal level. You can see the pressure that gets put on people who are wavering from the party line. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/105 "2013-04-19T14:36:49Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > . . . so that more private citizens could become gun dealers . . . And the point of **that** would be? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/106 "2013-04-19T15:10:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And the point of **that** would be? Gun dealers are required to do the background checks with the federal system. Having more gun dealers (like there used to be before they made it so difficult and expensive to become a dealer) means more gun sales are subjected to background checks. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/107 "2013-04-19T15:10:48Z")
> [@](#): > > LaPierre did call for some form of expanded background checks. > Yet at the same time the NRA worked hard to defeat the proposals advanced by President Clinton and other Democrats, just as it has worked hard to defeat Obama’s proposals this year. The net result is the same: stalemate and victory for the NRA. So in other words, the NRA is full of shit. Not trusting “outside polling groups” really worked well last November, din’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/108 "2013-04-19T16:30:27Z")
Let’s assume the lobbyists were lying. Are you saying the POTUS can’t call them on it? Why on eart not? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/109 "2013-04-19T19:21:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > A super majority of NRA members [support universal background checks.](http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/apr/04/lee-leffingwell/lee-leffingwell-says-polls-show-90-percent-america/) So the NRA does not support the views of its members. It is a rogue lobbyist, at the beck and call of gun manufacturers. That survey lumps together both current and “lapsed” (ie former) NRA members, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/110 "2013-04-19T19:53:45Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Lobbyists lie for a living, no matter the cause nor employer. > Put your big-boy pants on, & face the truth folks. This. Why do you think they frequently resort to bribes and misinformation? Their _job_ is to manipulate politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/111 "2013-04-19T22:26:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That survey lumps together both current and “lapsed” (ie former) NRA members, doesn’t it? The [NRA seems to count lapsed members in its “4.5 million” claim](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/does-the-nra-really-have-more-than-45-million-members/2013/02/07/06047c10-7164-11e2-ac36-3d8d9dcaa2e2_blog.html), so presumably their votes should still count. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/112 "2013-04-19T23:34:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Well, a couple of decades ago people were talking about a culture war, which sounds worse than red vs. blue. But to the actual question: a big part of this is the Internet. Local politics is national now, and there’s much more pressure toward party uniformity on a federal level. You can see the pressure that gets put on people who are wavering from the party line. Yeah, I suppose there has been the whole culture war since the 60s. But it seemed a lot more moderate in the late 70s, 80s and 90s. Now you have these strident, white, conservative, ultra relegious, pro-gun, anti-gay, anti-immigrant types screaming about how “liberals” and “foreigners” and even "the Federal government are destroying America. Their “America” is being destroyed. Or at least it is changing from the rural monoculture they grew up with. The world is becomming more globalized, more urbanized, more interconnected, more diverse and more secular. That is scary for them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/113 "2013-04-20T01:35:25Z")
Well, if you’re talking about globalization, there’s been liberal fear of that as well(check out the Seattle protests), and their crusade is just as doomed to failure as the right-wing version. The reality is that on both economic issues and social issues, those who seek to control are going to fail. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/114 "2013-04-20T03:34:11Z")
I get frustrated that every issue seems to come down to Rep vs Democrat. No matter what the issue happens to be. One party is for it and the other against. I often wonder how some issues get embraced by a party. Ok guys you want to take this one? Or lets give it to the other guys. They need a new issue. It doesn’t really make sense. You know there’s got to be people within the party that don’t support that issue. But, this attitude of vote the party line usually wins out. It’s a big part of todays problem that the votes are so black and white. It’s rare to see any bipartisan votes anymore. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/115 "2013-04-20T03:55:05Z")
Hey, another administration lie! [http://cnsnews.com/blog/stephen-gutowski/biden-claim-exaggerates-gun-stat-nearly-two-fold-compared-fbi-data](http://cnsnews.com/blog/stephen-gutowski/biden-claim-exaggerates-gun-stat-nearly-two-fold-compared-fbi-data) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/116 "2013-04-20T04:09:25Z")
Part of the problem of incivility is actually because of something good: “Bribery isn’t what it once was,” said an official with one of the major gun-control groups. “The government has no money. Once upon a time you would throw somebody a post office or a research facility in times like this. Frankly, there’s not a lot of leverage.” Read more: [Gun control: President Obama’s biggest loss - Glenn Thrush and Reid J. Epstein - POLITICO.com](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/gun-control-vote-obamas-biggest-loss-90244_Page3.html#ixzz2QyP9HfF8) Used to be that differences could be smoothed over with taxpayer money. Now that this can’t be done anymore, bills actually have to pass on their merits, which results in more “incivility”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/117 "2013-04-20T04:37:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The [NRA seems to count lapsed members in its “4.5 million” claim](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/does-the-nra-really-have-more-than-45-million-members/2013/02/07/06047c10-7164-11e2-ac36-3d8d9dcaa2e2_blog.html), so presumably their votes should still count. I don’t see where that piece makes that claim. Could you quote the text? And FWIW, both my wife and son are NRA members alongside me, but we only get one magazine, and for several years refused all magazines. I cannot explain why the refusal should surprise the analysts who wrote that piece; why get a free glossy magazine you don’t really want? In other words, the incredulity in the article seems forced. Or foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/118 "2013-04-20T06:37:28Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Awwww…poor widdle wiberals don’t wike it when they wose. > > Never a good thing to see the erstwhile leader of the free world acting like a toddler because he didn’t get his way. Funny, yes, but still not good. It’s the Senate and House Republicans that are throwing a tantrum. For going on five years now. But I guess many Republicans like that, because they are so very misinformed that they want self-destructive policies enacted, and see gridlock as an end in itself. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/119 "2013-04-20T06:58:19Z")
Tantrums by definition are ineffective. The Republicans have been very effective at getting their way since taking the House, so you need to find a different term. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018/120 "2013-04-20T07:01:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Tantrums by definition are ineffective. The Republicans have been very effective at getting their way since taking the House, so you need to find a different term. In what way is a tantrum ineffective? Have you ever seen a screaming child get his way? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-political-tone-is-just-getting-worse-and-worse/656018.md?page=7)