# The politics of Quran burning **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754 "2012-02-23T18:17:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/101 "2012-02-27T12:23:09Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > I was being ironic or sarcastic or, like, whatever, man. > > There are those in this thread who are parocial and/or provincial enough to seemingly believe it’s ‘just a book’. Quite. It doesn’t matter what we think. What matters is what the people whose ‘hearts and minds’ we are supposedly trying to win, think. Thanks to some idiots lots of people are dead, a lot more enemies created and all NATO people in the Afghan ministries have been pulled out because we cannot trust any Afghan, no matter how ‘loyal’ and trusted to not pull out a gun and start blasting. Great work guys. Really fracking great. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/102 "2012-02-27T12:30:36Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > I don’t support book burning, or Quran burning, or Bible burning. But, I find the images and descriptions of violent outrage shown by Muslim communities, in reaction to Quran burning, to be much more upsetting. There have been various groups of Muslims burning things that represent the US or Christianity or Judaism, for decades, and I’ve never seen a violent mob erupt due to those actions. I would readily give my life to defend free speech, even hate speech. And I worry that our president, in apologizing for said Quran burning, might appear to be sympathetic to the violence shown by offended Muslims, and might be giving short shrift to freedom-of-speech. Where’s the political line on this? I don’t approve of Quran burning but, I strongly support, and believe it is a free speech right; the freedom to burn a Quran, or Bible or flag. It doesn’t seem to me that most international Muslim communities understand the subtlety of that position. Will that ever change? Should it? It was my understanding that they were burnt because they contained messages put there by the prisoners at Guintanamo Bay.( Forgive the mispelling of the name). I do wonder why humans are so angered at some object that they kill people because of it. It is more important that human beings? I can understand their being upset because of the meaning they put on the book, but I would still think a human had more value than an object ot land. I think it is just polotics and the radical leaders use any excuse to kill people other than themselves, they don’t seem to need a reason, and I doubt that Any God would okay such actions! ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/103 "2012-02-27T12:47:07Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Quite. It doesn’t matter what we think. What matters is what the people whose ‘hearts and minds’ we are supposedly trying to win, think. > > Thanks to some idiots lots of people are dead, a lot more enemies created and all NATO people in the Afghan ministries have been pulled out because we cannot trust any Afghan, no matter how ‘loyal’ and trusted to not pull out a gun and start blasting. > > Great work guys. Really fracking great. As I said, I hope more of this happens-maybe we will see reason and simply LEAVE! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/104 "2012-02-27T13:42:16Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It was my understanding that they were burnt because they contained messages put there by the prisoners at Guintanamo Bay.( Forgive the mispelling of the name). They were burnt because somebody stupidly thought that burning them, rather than just confiscating them, was somehow a much more wonderful idea given all the previous upsets caused by disrespecting the Koran. That person is a sabateur, too stupid to breathe with written instructions. It is almost beyond belief that anyone would give brain-space to the idea given the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/105 "2012-02-27T15:35:14Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > As I said, I hope more of this happens-maybe we will see reason and simply LEAVE! Again, a withdrawal date was set more than a year ago. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Goodness me, you sound parochial. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > There are those in this thread who are parocial and/or provincial enough to seemingly believe it’s ‘just a book’. It’s neither parochial or provincial, it is _living on planet Earth_. I understand this is a holy book and Muslims anywhere are well within their rights to be offended that it was burned. No matter what they think or what their religion teaches, it is a book. The Quran is a book, the Bible is a book, the Dick and Jane series are books. Having soldiers burn Qurans in Afghanistan is idiotic and insensitive, but pretending it’s not a book just because someone says it’s not a book is patronizing. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/106 "2012-02-27T16:34:54Z")
Yeah. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/107 "2012-02-27T16:38:52Z")
Would you mind giving a little more detail on what you’re being ironic about? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/108 "2012-02-27T16:53:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Would you mind giving a little more detail on what you’re being ironic about? Probably when you expand on your weird idea that a ‘book’ is just a ‘book’. An object is never ‘just’ anything. Especially a religious or culturally significant thing like the Koran. It carries a weight of history, tradition, cultural expectations, symbolic meaning etc. What a thing ‘is’ is a complex and dynamic relationship between subject and object as well as time and location. You know this really. Just like foetus’s for example. In Afghanistan and a lot of other places the Koran is not ‘just a book’ and people who carry around that attitude will, as we keep seeing, get other people killed and undermine what little we have achieved regardless of western finger-wagging.’ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/109 "2012-02-27T16:56:14Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Probably when you expand on your weird idea that a ‘book’ is just a ‘book’. An object is never ‘just’ anything. Especially a religious or culturally significant thing like the Koran. It carries a weight of history, tradition, cultural expectations, symbolic meaning etc. What a thing ‘is’ is a complex and dynamic relationship between subject and object as well as time and location. You know this really. Yes, I do. But if you look again at what **PrettyVacant** wrote, maybe you can see why I felt a reality check was in order: > [@magellan01](#): > > Burning a book is simply never a justification for killing. Sorry you, and others, can’t seem to grasp that simple fact. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > If you think it’s a book, you are also eligible for the knucklehead US military. However important an object is in your religion or culture, it doesn’t justify killing anybody. Nor does its importance mean it isn’t a book. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/110 "2012-02-27T17:01:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, I do. But if you look again at what **PrettyVacant** wrote, maybe you can see why I felt a reality check was in order: > > However important an object is in your religion or culture, it doesn’t justify killing anybody. Nor does its importance mean it isn’t a book. Well, clearly in the eyes of a lot of the world it does. Just like ‘just changing religion’ demands death. The statement the ‘Koran is a book’ is meaningless. It has no content without an invisible ‘just’ inserted. Like it or not, (and I don’t, which is one of the many reasons I fear anyone who takes their religion seriously) the Koran is not a book to billions of people. It is the literal word of God and a holy object in itself. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/111 "2012-02-27T17:03:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, I do. But if you look again at what **PrettyVacant** wrote, maybe you can see why I felt a reality check was in order: > However important an object is in your religion or culture, it doesn’t justify killing anybody. Nor does its importance mean it isn’t a book. I geddit, you’re a secularist, atheist, agnostic or some such, and you don’t think people who get excited about religion are fundamentalists? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/112 "2012-02-27T17:05:22Z")
In other words, some people don’t believe what I wrote. I’m aware of that, which is why I wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/113 "2012-02-27T18:36:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In other words, some people don’t believe what I wrote. I’m aware of that, which is why I wrote it. You make the statement that the Koran is just a book, while the quote posted my magellon01 of General Mohammed Reza Naqd makes a statement that equates the Koran with the White House. My question to you is, do you also think that the White House is just a house? Because if so the I get it, as far as where you are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/114 "2012-02-27T18:47:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > As a result, the overwhelming majority of Muslims not only have never actually read the Quran, but for all intents and purposes can’t read it. Is this true?!! If so, we may have isolated the problem. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/115 "2012-02-27T18:48:50Z")
> [@florez](#): > > You make the statement that the Koran is just a book, while the quote posted my magellon01 of General Mohammed Reza Naqd makes a statement that equates the Koran with the White House. My question to you is, do you also think that the White House is just a house? Because if so the I get it, as far as where you are coming from. Not a great analogy. The white house is the property of the US Gov. Any particular Quran is the property of that particular owner. And maybe that’s where the conflict starts. The western world has a concept of ownership and thinks of a physical book as a physical book, in most cases. I don’t think many in the Muslim world feel the same about individual property rights. They seem to be much more collective minded. Anyway, I think the differences are very deep, and I’m not sure there is a common ground. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/116 "2012-02-27T18:59:36Z")
> [@florez](#): > > My question to you is, do you also think that the White House is just a house? Because if so the I get it, as far as where you are coming from. It isn’t just a _house_, no; it’s a government building and a museum among other things. But if it burned down tomorrow I wouldn’t take to the streets and start flipping cars and killing people. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/117 "2012-02-27T19:00:40Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > Not a great analogy. The white house is the property of the US Gov. . Taxpayers and U.S. Citizens generally have the belief that they have some ownership in the U.S. Gov. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/118 "2012-02-27T19:02:57Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Well, clearly in the eyes of a lot of the world it does. Just like ‘just changing religion’ demands death. > > The statement the ‘Koran is a book’ is meaningless. It has no content without an invisible ‘just’ inserted. Like it or not, (and I don’t, which is one of the many reasons I fear anyone who takes their religion seriously) the Koran is not a book to billions of people. > > It is the literal word of God and a holy object in itself. Good for them. But they have no right to expect others to feel the same way about it. How about we have an artist do a Piss Muhammad and see how their throwback minds handle it? When BAM displayed Piss Christ, Christians were incensed. But guess what, they wrote articles, some might have protested some, I don’t remember, but there were no killings or airport bombs. Hell, their little heads might explode for aneurysms. Here’s where we are: the world reached a level of civilization. There are some people who prefer to live in a world with the barbarism of the seventh century. But the civilized do not find that acceptable. So we need to let the assholes know it’s unacceptable. And the Muslims who have decided to embrace civilization need to let them know, too. We cannot tip-toe around this bullshit. It serves no purpose to treat a friggin book of which billions exist like the Shroud of Turin. But even that’s a bad example because if the Shroud of Turin was defiled, I doubt we’d have Christians killing people willy-nilly. It serves the world ill to kowtow to the rank ignorance and stupidity of accepting that drawing a cartoon or burning a book in any way justifies violence of any kind, never mind killing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/119 "2012-02-27T19:05:22Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Well, clearly in the eyes of a lot of the world it does. Just like ‘just changing religion’ demands death. > > The statement the ‘Koran is a book’ is meaningless. It has no content without an invisible ‘just’ inserted. Like it or not, (and I don’t, which is one of the many reasons I fear anyone who takes their religion seriously) the Koran is not a book to billions of people. > > It is the literal word of God and a holy object in itself. The statement the ‘Koran is a book’ is meaningless only if you think statements like 2 + 2 = 4 is meaningless, or that stone is harder than wood is meaningless. Some of us do not find statements of fact meaningless. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754/120 "2012-02-27T19:05:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It isn’t just a _house_, no; it’s a government building and a museum among other things. But if it burned down tomorrow I wouldn’t take to the streets and start flipping cars and killing people. Neither would I, but if such a thing were to occur, and it was done by members of some troops, unwelcome in the U.S. then I believe that someone might get their ass kicked for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-politics-of-quran-burning/613754.md?page=7)