# The poor shouldn't have income tax.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 22, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633 "2017-06-22T20:01:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/1 "2017-06-22T20:01:39Z")
Why should I have to notify the IRS if I make small change? If a poor person doesn’t notify the IRS of their income then they should have some sort of relief so if in the future they’re audited everything that they owe from when they were poor would be relieved.
Basically my main belief is if the rich give money to the poor then the poor will spend more and the rich will sell more thus everyone inbetween will rise. This is why the poor specifically need free good healthcare, lower taxes, and basic income. If the poor have more money they will spend more, if they spend more the rich will produce more. If we take from the rich and give to the poor we’re putting more money back into our economy that otherwise would be sat on.
The rich have excessive money they can spare, they make more money than they can spend. This cannot be sustained without further suffering for the poor and middle classes.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/2 "2017-06-22T20:03:58Z")
Well, 47% already don’t pay, right?
---
### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/3 "2017-06-22T20:06:21Z")
Isn’t this basically the same argument you used in the last thread you started on this? 😕
By and large, ‘a poor person’, depending on what you mean by that, doesn’t pay a lot or any income tax (or gets a refund at the end of the year). My understanding is that it’s mainly other taxes that are regressive on the poor, such as state and local taxes or taxes on goods and services. Income tax falls mainly on the middle class from a burden perspective, since actual poor people don’t pay it for the most part and really rich people don’t have income but investments.
---
### Author:  [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/4 "2017-06-22T20:07:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Well, 47% already don’t pay, right?
I’m saying 100% of people making under 20k a year or making less than X amount of money in anyway whether it’s capital gains or donations they should not be taxed at all.
---
### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/5 "2017-06-22T20:08:34Z")
I generally agree with this:
> [@Barack\_Obama](#):
>
> This is why the poor specifically need free good healthcare, lower taxes, and basic income…
But you cant have this without telling the IRS that you’re poor. That answers this:
> [@](#):
>
> Why should I have to notify the IRS if I make small change?
---
### Author:  [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/6 "2017-06-22T20:10:15Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> Isn’t this basically the same argument you used in the last thread you started on this? 😕
>
> By and large, ‘a poor person’, depending on what you mean by that, doesn’t pay a lot or any income tax (or gets a refund at the end of the year). My understanding is that it’s mainly other taxes that are regressive on the poor, such as state and local taxes or taxes on goods and services. Income tax falls mainly on the middle class from a burden perspective, since actual poor people don’t pay it for the most part and really rich people don’t have income but investments.
Well then reduce the middle class taxes, but I don’t want to be forced to give up a % of a super small amount of money where that same % to a rich person would be virtually meaningless.
And yes those taxes hurt a lot as well. A poor person will manage to get 5 dollars for a number 7 from mcdonalds. However depending on where the mcdonalds is located the taxes might end up costing them a dollar or two more. That dollar or two more makes a huge impact on these peoples lives. We need to stop that.
Parking meter taxes are horrible as well. Many Veterans go down to the city to visit the VA. They have to pay taxes to park because virtually every parking spot that doesn’t have a parking meter is taken. So you’re burdening the poor people so badly with these sorts of taxes. Whether it’s state or federal, any tax on the poor hurts a lot more than it does anyone else.
---
### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/7 "2017-06-22T20:10:26Z")
nm
---
### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/8 "2017-06-22T20:11:44Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#):
>
> I’m saying 100% of people making under 20k a year or making less than X amount of money in anyway whether it’s capital gains or donations they should not be taxed at all.
So, you don’t believe in things like gasoline taxes, taxes on goods and services and the like? Or are you suggesting issuing a special ‘I’m really poor’ card so that they can get out of paying those taxes?? And why $20k? Are you going to the official federal poverty line or just want to use an arbitrary number??
This is, btw, different than your OP or the title where you were talking initially about income tax. Just sayin’…
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/9 "2017-06-22T20:14:21Z")
[This is from 2014](http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2014/02/who-doesnt-have-to-file-income-taxes.html), but similar rules apply today:
\*Many people assume that if they earned any amount of income last year, then they’re required to file a tax return. However, depending on your gross income, you might not have to file at all.
If your income in 2013 fell below a certain threshold amount, then you likely don’t need to file taxes. Here are some examples of income thresholds for different types of people:
Single adults under the age of 65 who earned less than $9,750 in 2013.
Married couples under 65, filing jointly, who earned less than $19,500 in 2013.
Dependent children whose gross income was less than $6,100 in 2013.\*
---
### Author:  [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/10 "2017-06-22T20:15:02Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> So, you don’t believe in things like gasoline taxes, taxes on goods and services and the like? Or are you suggesting issuing a special ‘I’m really poor’ card so that they can get out of paying those taxes?? And why $20k? Are you going to the official federal poverty line or just want to use an arbitrary number??
>
> This is, btw, different than your OP or the title where you were talking initially about income tax. Just sayin’…
I wasn’t thinking about all the other ways poor people are taxed, I was under the suspision income taxes on the poor effect them more than it does someone in the upper classes but that’s apparently not the case for the middle class.
My issue here is the poor need every cent they can get. Think of the poor moneys as your own, you don’t want to spend your money on stupid crap do you? So why would you want the poors money being systematically taken away from them in a way that they wont be able to muster up enough money to get anywhere. The burden of living alone for the poor is where most of their money goes to. The way our tax system works is oppressing the poor.
---
### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/11 "2017-06-22T20:16:12Z")
[QUOTE=Barack Obama]
Well then reduce the middle class taxes, but I don’t want to be forced to give up a % of a super small amount of money where that same % to a rich person would be virtually meaningless.
[/QUOTE]
But the super rich comprise a small percentage of the population. Even if you impose taxes that you couldn’t really impose it won’t make up the difference in funds, especially if you want to add a bunch of new entitlements which you seem to want to do. Like your other thread, you have to at least try and keep it real.
Also, I’m unsure of the changes such a plan would have even if you could make it work…I mean, if the rich pay for basically everything, and you set some arbitrary line for everyone else to pay nothing, what effect would that have on the country? AFAIK, no country does this…not even our European pals.
I suppose my main issue is, I don’t see anything wrong with people paying taxes, even poor people. This isn’t to say we couldn’t have more programs to help poor people, or couldn’t increase taxes on richer folks AS WELL, but I’m actually ok with everyone paying something. Skin in the game and all that.
---
### Author:  [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/12 "2017-06-22T20:19:33Z")
I always thought that having to pay income taxes on unemployment insurance income is wrong. It’s been too long ago for me to remember the numbers, but when I was single I had a stint on unemployment and it was slightly less than poverty-level income. And yet Uncle Sam still wanted their cut despite the fact that I could barely feed myself ramen and beans.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/13 "2017-06-22T20:24:01Z")
> [@JcWoman](#):
>
> I always thought that having to pay income taxes on unemployment insurance income is wrong. It’s been too long ago for me to remember the numbers, but when I was single I had a stint on unemployment and it was slightly less than poverty-level income. And yet Uncle Sam still wanted their cut despite the fact that I could barely feed myself ramen and beans.
Beans are considered extra. So now you know! 😉
The OP is all over the place. If he wants an actual debate, he needs to lay out his thesis and show us his math. Otherwise it just sounds like every other rant we hear about how unfair everything is.
---
### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/14 "2017-06-22T20:26:02Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#):
>
> I’m saying 100% of people making under 20k a year or making less than X amount of money in anyway whether it’s capital gains or donations they should not be taxed at all.
John gave the numbers we settled on as a country, for federal income tax at least:
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Single adults under the age of 65 who earned less than $9,750 in 2013.
> Married couples under 65, filing jointly, who earned less than $19,500 in 2013.
> Dependent children whose gross income was less than $6,100 in 2013.\*
$19.5k for married couples filing jointly is pretty damn close to our “under 20k” figure though. Tell your poor friends to get married and it’s basically done.
---
### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/15 "2017-06-22T20:27:56Z")
I pay an aggravating amount of taxes already, so virtually any attempt to increase them is met with resistance, and virtually any attempt to decrease them is met with my support.
---
### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/16 "2017-06-22T20:34:48Z")
I believe that income is always taxed (particularly if I am reading the below link correctly). If you’re under the threshold, you will get a full refund in Spring, so you are also not-taxed, depending on how you want to interpret it.
> **[How Much Does an Employee Have to Make Before You Have to Withhold Federal...](https://smallbusiness.chron.com/much-employee-make-before-withhold-federal-state-taxes-730.html)**
>
> With one rare exception, every employer must withhold every employee's federal income tax from their earnings, no matter how little they earn. This obligation is sometimes confused with the taxpayer's right not to file a federal return if her income...
Personally, I think that this little bait-and-switch deal is just a waste of time and effort and serves no purpose beyond creating a flush market in Vegas in Spring of every year.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/17 "2017-06-22T20:35:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> John gave the numbers we settled on as a country, for federal income tax at least:
>
> $19.5k for married couples filing jointly is pretty damn close to our “under 20k” figure though. Tell your poor friends to get married and it’s basically done.
Those are only the amounts for people who don’t have to file returns. The amount you can make and not pay federal income tax is higher, or it can be higher depending on other conditions. Generally speaking 45% +/- of families pay no federal income tax. They get dinged with a lot of other taxes, but federal income tax is not the bugaboo that the OP seem to think. Perhaps he can do some research and get back to us when has a better understanding of the tax code.
---
### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/18 "2017-06-22T20:43:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I pay an aggravating amount of taxes already, so virtually any attempt to increase them is met with resistance, and virtually any attempt to decrease them is met with my support.
Have you evaluated the cost-effectiveness of your tax burden?
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/19 "2017-06-22T20:44:20Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> Have you evaluated the cost-effectiveness of your tax burden?
Doesn’t everyone?
---
### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633/20 "2017-06-22T20:48:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> Have you evaluated the cost-effectiveness of your tax burden?
Like, the value? As in, what I get for what I pay?
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-poor-shouldnt-have-income-tax/789633.md?page=2)