# The Pope has died \[April 21, 2025\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 21, 2025, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296 "2025-04-21T08:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/41 "2025-04-21T17:39:56Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > This is sad news. He seemed to be as progressive as the RCC would allow him to be … I’ve heard any attempt to make even minor changes in the RCC compared to trying to turn a supertanker around in the Straits of Dover (and in the case of the RCC, a supertanker that’s accumulated 2,000+ years of barnacles). I’m surprised he was able to nudge the Church as much as he did, especially given the amount of opposition he encountered in the upper reaches of the Curia. I recall accusations of heresy when his modestly progressive agenda came to light, as well as speculation he might actually be the Antichrist (based, IIRC, on some Nostradamus-like nonsense). ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/42 "2025-04-21T18:00:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > With the recent release of the movie _Conclave,_ lots more people will have an idea of how a new pope is elected. This would be a good time to watch it. I haven’t seen the movie, but the book was an excellent read. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/43 "2025-04-21T18:06:43Z")
The book is very accurate and the movie does give a good idea of what happens. Older cardinals did not have the social media trail cardinals have now. Orthodox has bright week. Basically pascha lasts 7 days. That means meat and dairy on weds and fri.! Whoot! I was briefly awake in the wee hours and saw the text alert 10 minutes after it happened. ---
**Author:** ![IkesAcolyte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ikesacolyte/32/19012_2.png) [@IkesAcolyte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IkesAcolyte)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/44 "2025-04-21T18:26:47Z")
I’ve read there is speculation that a black Cardinal will be the next to be “chosen by God.” Apparently the Catholic church is seeing its largest growth in Africa, so it makes sense to have the next Pope be from Africa. That will create tension with the historically very conservative/white Clergy. Grab your popcorn and start watching that smokestack. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/45 "2025-04-21T18:31:58Z")
I also read Robert Harris’s _Conclave_ and enjoyed it. Haven’t seen the movie yet, but I hope to soon. I’m not Catholic, but I liked Pope Francis. I appreciated his humility, his thoughtfulness and his tireless advocacy for the poor and refugees. He really tried to reform the church and move it in a more modern and compassionate direction, unlike his two predecessors. I think he did about as much as he could, given the Vatican bureaucracy and deep-rooted conservative opposition. Now, may the first Jesuit pope rest in peace, and may his successor - wherever he’s from - carry Francis’s important work forward. An interesting read: [Factbox-Who could be the next pope? Some possible candidates](https://www.aol.com/factbox-might-succeed-pope-francis-105957388.html) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/46 "2025-04-21T18:42:30Z")
> [@IkesAcolyte](#): > > That will create tension with the historically very conservative/white Clergy. Grab your popcorn and start watching that smokestack. OTOH, the African clergy I’ve interacted with professionally have been very conservative and excluding. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/47 "2025-04-21T18:43:54Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > The book is very accurate and the movie does give a good idea of what happens. The [official rulebook for a conclave](https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_22021996_universi-dominici-gregis.html) lays out most of the formalities in some detail. Also, the first part of the opening session, up to ‘Extra omnes’ and the locking of the doors, is televised. So, we do have some idea of how it is organised. It’s all the behind-the-scenes plotting, before and during the conclave, that’s necessarily speculative. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/48 "2025-04-21T18:57:12Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > _Au contraire,_ you’re right that God isn’t telling, but enough living people have participated in past conclaves that the process is well-known. Not to mention the Vatican staff who have been around for many years. If it was all that secret, how would they know how to do the next one? To clarify, the process is known. But the interesting part is in the politicking, and that’s known only to the cardinals and might be different every time. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/49 "2025-04-21T19:00:49Z")
I very much agree with this. It will be interesting to see who comes out of the conclave. As someone else mentioned, it’s going to probably take a few papacies to get the Church up to speed. I certainly hope the result of this conclave doesn’t set them back another century. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/50 "2025-04-21T20:03:18Z")
Liz Truss killed Queen Elizabeth with her poison breath, and now Vance has gotten the Pope the same way. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/51 "2025-04-21T20:21:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He had a pretty good run at least. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’m not Catholic, but I liked Pope Francis. I appreciated his humility, his thoughtfulness and his tireless advocacy for the poor and refugees. He really tried to reform the church and move it in a more modern and compassionate direction, unlike his two predecessors. I think he did about as much as he could,… One of the better Popes. > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > The book is very accurate and the movie does give a good idea of what happens A Cardinal _in pectore_ can not go to the Conclave or vote- he is only allowed to if it has been announced. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/52 "2025-04-21T20:24:32Z")
That was mentioned in the NPR article I cited above: > He _[Rev. Thomas Reese, a columnist at Religion News Service with a Ph.D. in Political Science from the University of California, Berkeley]_ noted that one of the film’s major inaccuracies was the treatment of Cardinal Vincent Benitez, played by Carlos Diehz, who was made a Cardinal _in pectore_, a Latin phrase that translates to “in the heart,” and refers to a process where appointments are made in secret. In reality, a Cardinal who is appointed _in pectore_ may not participate in a conclave unless his name was announced by the pope before he died, which was not the case in the film. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/53 "2025-04-21T20:35:27Z")
Re. _Conclave_, we saw it in the theater. It was a very entertaining movie, beautifully shot, wonderfully acted. The behind-the-scenes politicking that comprised the plot was fictional, but it is easy to believe it could happen that way when a group of men are vying for one of the most influential positions in the world. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/54 "2025-04-21T20:52:11Z")
I believe that specific politicking was ficional_ized_ in the movie, but Cardinals are _men_ in positions of power who have risen through the ranks in one of the most historically powerful organizations in human history. AND I’ll bet many of them believe they were personally put by God in their various positions. When you believe you have literally been ordained and set in place by the direct descendant in the line of succession of the man chosen by Jesus Christ to found the Church, it must be an enormous challenge to stay humble. Something Francis seemed to be able to do to some extent. The political maneuvering is probably a lot more intense in reality than was portrayed in the movie. * * * Happy cake day! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/55 "2025-04-21T20:56:57Z")
Counterpoint: > **[Getting Ahead of It: JD Vance Almost Definitely Didn’t Kill the Pope](https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/getting-ahead-of-it-jd-vance-almost-definitely-didnt-kill-the-pope)** > > Let’s make one thing very clear: So far, there is almost no proof that JD Vance is directly responsible for the death of Pope Francis. All we know ... ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/56 "2025-04-21T21:10:31Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/57 "2025-04-21T22:30:44Z")
Apologies for posting without having read the whole thread, but a BBC News reporter said something like, “Of course Pope Francis will be canonized.” Why of course? Is _every_ pope canonized? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/58 "2025-04-21T22:33:49Z")
He resisted trying to strangle Vance. That must be some kind of miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/59 "2025-04-21T22:35:18Z")
Not every Pope, but a lot of them, and Francis was very popular. Which theoretically shouldn’t matter, but the canonization process is carried out by people. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296/60 "2025-04-21T22:35:46Z")
Perhaps it took whatever energy he had remaining to convey a message about tolerance and charity and treating migrants better to Vance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-has-died-april-21-2025/1017296.md?page=4)