# "The Pope is Going to Hell Because He Wasn't Saved" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 3, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471 "2005-04-03T01:40:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/41 "2005-04-04T17:04:28Z")
Yeah, swampbear, when I was taking classes before becoming an Episcopalian, I liked what the cathedral provost told us “Being Episcopalian means you don’t have to check your brains at the door!” One of our deacons told us a story about how, as a young girl, she attended a Methodist service with a friend. There was an altar call, and she was about the only one who didn’t go forward, not knowing what was happening. The pastor came down and asked her gently “don’t you want to be saved?” “No, I’m Episcopalian!” was her reply. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/42 "2005-04-04T17:13:33Z")
Didn’t know Methodists did that, but I’ve been informed elsewhere that there are different flavors of them in different parts of the country. If asked myself, I would say no, I am baptized and confirmed already and that suffices in my tradition. If pressed, I would get less polite and if told I was going to Hell, I would walk the hell out of there. ---
**Author:** ![swampbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampbear/32/467_2.png) [@swampbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampbear)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/43 "2005-04-04T17:21:47Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Didn’t know Methodists did that, but I’ve been informed elsewhere that there are different flavors of them in different parts of the country. > > If asked myself, I would say no, I am baptized and confirmed already and that suffices in my tradition. If pressed, I would get less polite and if told I was going to Hell, I would walk the hell out of there. Now, see, that’s when I’d have to ask for the written documentation given to that person from God Himself that qualified that person to determine whether or not I was going to hell. Course he’d start spouting off a bunch of strung together scripture I’m sure but I’d still insist on seeing proof that God Himself gave that person the absolute power to condemn people to hell. Then I’d either walk out or be kicked out. Either way would be good with me. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/44 "2005-04-05T00:42:50Z")
You and me both, brother. You and me both! By the way, **Steel Rat** (in this thread, I suppose it’s appopriate to ask if you’re a Stainless **Steel Rat** 😉 ), a very good friend of mine who’s a Wiccan and is aware of my somewhat unorthodox style has been known to call me an “Episco-Pagan”! From him, it’s a compliment! 😃 CJ ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/45 "2005-04-05T02:34:02Z")
> [@Steel Rat](#): > > Would that make the Cathopal, or Episcolic? I’m Episcopalian & my wife is a Catholic (both in the loosest senses of the words). She calls me an Episcopite & I call her a Cathaholic. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/46 "2005-04-05T12:09:59Z")
> [@swampbear](#): > > Plus God has of yet to specifically tell me that I get to decide who is and who isn’t in His good graces. I kinda figure that to be true of everybody else too. _points at **swampbear** and says:_ Hear him. Someone somewhere on this board said not too long ago (and that is a poor substitute for a link, but the best I can manage right now) that our proper business as Christians should be to look after our neighbour’s bodily needs and pray for the state of our own souls. I kinda think we get that bass-ackwards entirely too often. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/47 "2005-04-05T12:19:39Z")
I know people who would agree that the Pope is going to hell for that reason. In fact, I know people who believe worse. I recall one freshman student, several years back, who turned in an essay – horribly off-topic – in which she identified the Catholic Church as the “whore of Babylon”. I guess I should clarify, that’s at a university, not a high school. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/48 "2005-04-05T20:04:16Z")
A line from the 1952 film version of _Ivanhoe_ summs it up pretty neatly: “For every Jew you show me who is not a Christian, I’ll show you a Christian who is not a Christian.” Religion is, in general, a good thing. Even organized religion. But where it all goes awry is when any one faith claims to have a monopoly on the truth. Therein lies the seed of righteous bigotry, a disease that has claimed more lives and wrought more misery than all the gold in the world. ---
**Author:** ![KinSaba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7bcc69/32.png) [@KinSaba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KinSaba)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/49 "2005-04-05T23:29:51Z")
The beauty, of course, is that it isn’t up to any of us who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. That would be the province of God. I am content to leave it up to Him. This is what I said to the two boys in the lunch line behind me at my Christian (Lutheran) high school the day John Lennon was killed and they opined that “his ass was in hell” and what a bummer that was. I believe it applies in this case as well. ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/50 "2005-04-06T03:55:39Z")
> [@Avarie537](#): > > I happened to be shopping for a Bridal Shower card this afternoon, when I overheard two ladies talking about 15 feet away. > > “So, I went to my sister’s husband’s step-dad’s funeral today, and the pastor said the most horrible thing. He said that the Pope was going to hell because he wasn’t saved.” > > What the fuck??? I turned and looked at her in utter disbelief. I don’t normally poke my nose into other peoples’ conversations, but I was too shocked to keep quiet about that one. > > “He actually said that??” > > “Yeah - in the middle of the funeral service.” > > Just wow. Now, I’m not a practicing anything, but I was floored by the fact that a pastor brought this up at someone else’s funeral! I understand that some people are very vehement about their “version” of Christianity being “right,” but I was simply dumbfounded. > > (I put this in MPSIMS because I didn’t feel angry enough to put it in the Pit. lease feel free to move it if things get ugly.) I believe it… at my lil bro’s funeral some lady implied that he might not have been saved and was paying the price. I do see the point of a call to get saved at a Christian memorial service but I don’t see the point of assuming whether or not people are in Hell. I know alot of people who think the Pope is in Hell because in the Catholic tradition they pray to saints and that is seen as idol worship. In my opinion because he believed Jesus died for his sins and is the only GOD then he should be in Heaven. Either way I’m not one of those Christians that goes around giving my opinion on who is going to Heaven and who isn’t. I hope everybody goes to Heaven. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/51 "2005-04-06T16:29:00Z")
Actually, kiddo, the statement that “Catholics pray to saints” is one of the more common and more obnoxious lies told about Catholicism. I also think it’s highly impertinent to assume that someone who has a reasonable idea of what to do in church hasn’t been saved and quite rude to heap more grief one someone who is grieving by implying that he or she is going to hell. To me, an altar call at a funeral is as rude and out of place as declaring that one is going to divorce at a wedding. CJ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/52 "2005-04-06T16:42:39Z")
> [@Steel Rat](#): > > Would that make the Cathopal, or Episcolic? Actually, as far as interfaith marriages go, we call that Amateur Hour. 🙂 Catholic and Baptist, now… ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/53 "2005-04-06T18:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sample\_the\_Dog] I know people who would agree that the Pope is going to hell for that reason. In fact, I know people who believe worse. I recall one freshman student, several years back, who turned in an essay – horribly off-topic – in which she identified the Catholic Church as the “whore of Babylon”. snip [QUOTE] My brother and SIL’s pastor told them the same thing during a sermon, and my SIL believes it. At my friend’s mother’s funeral a couple of years ago (which took place just after the shuttle explosion which killed all those aboard), the minister made reference to them and implied that they weren’t saved or heaven-bound either. What a thing to say in the first place, and to say it at a funeral! But from reading this thread, I can see that’s it not that uncommon. Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/54 "2005-04-06T20:11:40Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > At my friend’s mother’s funeral a couple of years ago (which took place just after the shuttle explosion which killed all those aboard), the minister made reference to them and implied that they weren’t saved or heaven-bound either. What a thing to say in the first place, and to say it at a funeral! But from reading this thread, I can see that’s it not that uncommon. > > Good grief. You know, it’s terrible of me to say this, but if I had been at that funeral, I probably would have had to been physically restrained from beating the life out that “minister.” ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/55 "2005-04-06T20:20:58Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Actually, kiddo, the statement that “Catholics pray to saints” is one of the more common and more obnoxious lies told about Catholicism. I also think it’s highly impertinent to assume that someone who has a reasonable idea of what to do in church hasn’t been saved and quite rude to heap more grief one someone who is grieving by implying that he or she is going to hell. To me, an altar call at a funeral is as rude and out of place as declaring that one is going to divorce at a wedding. > > CJ It’s kind of a semantic issue, **Siege** , because Catholics _do_ pray to saints. My entire life I’ve been offering up prayers to Saint Anthony whenever I lost something, or begging help from Saint Jude when facing an upcoming exam. The _Ave Maria_ is a direct invocation to Mary. This facet of Catholicism is lost on many protestants, who mistake the \*veneration \*of a saint for the act of \*worshiping \*a saint. Within Catholic tradition, saints play a role almost like (God forgive me) the League of Holy Lawyers. They watch over those members of the fold who fall under their specific patronage. In times of need, particularly when it is requested of them through prayer, they may lend their own prayers in support of the supplicant. The theory is that saints, having already been established as _especially_ beloved of God, have more influence with the Big Guy than we small fries. This does not mean that saints are elevated to the status of gods, or even demigods. When one invokes a saint in orthodox Catholicism, one asks the saint to _pray for one_, to intercede on one’s behalf. One does not use them as a substitute for God. So yes, Catholics pray to saints. But they do not _worship_ them. ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471/56 "2005-04-07T00:19:57Z")
Ohmigod! A thread I started has made it to page 2 - this has never happened! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pope-is-going-to-hell-because-he-wasnt-saved/297471.md?page=2)