# The Pope's Bullshit attempt to appear liberal about gays! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946 "2013-07-30T20:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/221 "2013-08-04T16:58:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let me rephrase that, then. Your rephrasing is much better. Thank you. But is it still extremely American-centric? IIRC, RedFury is not an American. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/222 "2013-08-04T17:17:00Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Please show your work. Namely cite and cite. > > Thank you. Cite what, the English language? “Who am I to judge?” is simply not the same as “I judge you.” If your understanding of English leads you to conclude those are the same, I can’t help you. I’m not an English teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/223 "2013-08-04T19:04:13Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let me rephrase that, then. > I know of no parish that has ever suffered a loss of attendance because their pastor or associate was believed to be gay. Just to back up **tomndeb** , this has been my observation as well. I’ve been a churchgoing Catholic for more than 50 years, and for as long as I can remember (and for as long as I’ve been old enough to understand what “gay” means), I’ve known priests who were understood to be gay by their parishioners. Look, it’s _always_ been pretty clear to Catholics that a celibate priesthood will attract men who have no atraction to women. In my experience, nobody had a problem with this. It is a fairly recent phenomenon that some in the hierarchy have decided that gay men should not be admitted to seminaries. **RedFury** says: > [@](#): > > Not many practicing Catholics would be willing to go to a Mass lad by a “fag.” Please. This is nonsense. Practicing Catholics have been going to Masses celebrated by gay men since time immemorial. While most of those Catholics would certainly have been put off by a priest openly having a relationship with a man, that’s hardly the same thing. Catholics (at least in the US) expect their priests to be celibate. And: > [@](#): > > And their attendance is at an all time low, mostly comprised by a fading generation of conservative Catholics who’d been feeding from the same trough for decades on end. It is true that Mass attendance is falling. But (in my experience) it is not true that those attending Mass are mostly comprised of a “fading generation of conservative Catholics.” While there is obviously a considerable amount of regional variation, of the several parishes in my part of Brooklyn, that might describe one of them. One parish in particular (strictly speaking, it’s an oratory, not a parish) has, as far as I can tell, _no_ conservative Catholics (although it has plenty of older Catholics), and its Sunday Masses are _packed_. That’s a bit of an outlier, since the congregation at an oratory is pretty much an affinity-based community rather than a geographic community, like a regular parish, but still, it tells you something about who’s attending Mass. My own parish, while not filling the house like the oratory, is hardly a hotbed of conservatism, and younger (by which I mean younger than me;)) Catholics are a majority. And, by the way, keep in mind that more than 3 million showed up for Word _Youth_ day just a few days ago. To me, the most significant thing about the Pope’s words was that he used the word “gay” (in English, so it’s not a translator’s interpretation of what he said). This is a departure from the way in which gays have been spoken of before. He didn’t say “homosexual persons” (which isn’t actually that offensive a phrase, I guess) or “those afflicted with ‘deep-seated homosexual tendencies’” (the phrase in the English version of the Catechism), or as suffering from an objective disorder, or the repellent “same sex attraction disorder (SSAD).” He said _“gay”_. I do take this as a sign of change to come. Certainly very, very slowly, but it is a sign. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/224 "2013-08-04T20:58:29Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > It is not sinful to BE homsexual, as long as you tie a knot in your dick, take cold showers and remain chaste your entire life. > [@marshmallow](#): > > I don’t get it. They’re not exactly hurting for members. Why even pretend? Hurting members, on the other hand… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946.md?page=11)