# The Pope's Bullshit attempt to appear liberal about gays! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946 "2013-07-30T20:47:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/21 "2013-07-30T22:05:06Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > We clearly have different ideas about what is making the best of it. The best thing we can do is **ignore** it, but it still ain’t going away. “People of Faith” gonna be People of Faith. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/22 "2013-07-30T22:10:32Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > If you look at my OP you will see that I am clearly inviting others to debate Clearly? Not to this “other”. From where I’m sitting, all your OP was missing was spittle. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/23 "2013-07-30T22:11:47Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Just to answer your question, I think it is your personal dislike for me that makes you judge that almost anything I post is a rant rather than a debate. I do not deny that I express my viewpoint in strong language, but that does not automatically change it from a debate to a rant. If you look at my OP you will see that I am clearly inviting others to debate whether the Pope’s declaration is a move towards tolerance and a more liberal attitude, or whther he is just using an old bait-and-switch trick to make people believe he is more accepting when he is not. It is quite a legitimate debate. If you look at Great Debates, you will find that you are the OP of a number of threads, there, that I have never moved. The OP in this thread posts no debate; it is simply a rant. I do not even have a strong personal opinion against your viewpoint. (I think you are reading too much into what Pope Francis said, but that is understandable.) However, it was not a debate. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/24 "2013-07-30T22:23:45Z")
This is no different than the people who preach abstinence to kids. You know, no sex before marriage. And what about gays? Most of these same people are opposed to same-sex marriage. Which means gay people are condemned to have absolutely no sex at all. Ever. I believe this is why so many gay teenagers enter the priesthood. They can live a life of celibacy, being “good Catholics,” while having an excuse for not getting married to a woman. We see how that worked. And who was expecting this pope to be any different. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/25 "2013-07-30T22:28:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If you look at Great Debates, you will find that you are the OP of a number of threads, there, that I have never moved. > > The OP in this thread posts no debate; it is simply a rant. I do not even have a strong personal opinion against your viewpoint. (I think you are reading too much into what Pope Francis said, but that is understandable.) > However, it was not a debate. One person (me) says that the Pope’s comments are not a sincere attempt to change his position on gays, but merely a rhetorical trick to make himself sound tolerantl when he is not. **VERSUS** Possible disagreement from those who believe that his comments signal an important change of attitude towards gays. How is that not a debate? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/26 "2013-07-30T22:30:17Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > One person (me) says that the Pope’s comments are not a sincere attempt to change his position on gays, but merely a rhetorical trick to make himself sound tolerantl when he is not. > > **VERSUS** > > Possible disagreement from those who believe that his comments signal an important change of attitude towards gays. > > How is that not a debate? Third option: It’s not “an important change of attitude towards gays,” it’s just a matter of lightening up a little. This Pope is very big on that. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/27 "2013-07-30T22:36:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Third option: It’s not “an important change of attitude towards gays,” it’s just a matter of lightening up a little. This Pope is very big on that. His Church used to teach that homosexual acts were a “grave moral disorder” and “intrinsically evil”. It was not sinful to BE homsexual, as long as you tied a knot in your dick, took cold showers and remained chaste your entire life. Today, his Church teaches that homosexual acts are a “grave moral disorder” and “intrinsically evil”. It is not sinful to BE homsexual, as long as you tie a knot in your dick, take cold showers and remain chaste your entire life. Where exactly does the “lightening up” come in? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/28 "2013-07-30T22:37:15Z")
I’m not Catholic so I don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/29 "2013-07-30T22:39:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Third option: It’s not “an important change of attitude towards gays,” it’s just a matter of lightening up a little. This Pope is very big on that. Would an equivalent expression for “lightening up a little” be “learning to bullshit reporters into seeing you as tolerant and conciliatory”.? ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/30 "2013-07-30T22:41:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m not Catholic so I don’t care. One look at the record of Islamic states in hanging, whipping and otherwise torturing gays should be enough to make you hurl yer lunch! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/31 "2013-07-30T22:51:44Z")
I was born and raised Catholic. I am no more. _This_ pope, is obviously trying to move things forward at, a typically Roman, glacial pace; but forward anyway. “Who am I to judge?” is actually a brave statement from these guys. Glacially slow, yes. To have the head of the Big C not condemn homosexuality as a sin is a very small step in the right direction. You can’t expect the world from these guys. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/32 "2013-07-30T22:54:59Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Would an equivalent expression for “lightening up a little” be “learning to bullshit reporters into seeing you as tolerant and conciliatory”.? Sure, if that helps. Catholics hear what he’s **saying,** not thinking, and it might encourage them to lighten up a little themselves. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/33 "2013-07-30T22:56:23Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > To have the head of the Big C not condemn homosexuality as a sin is a very small step in the right direction. Well, actually, the most he’s saying is that homosexual **orientation** is not a sin. But don’t put that thing in your mouth! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/34 "2013-07-30T23:21:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, actually, the most he’s saying is that homosexual **orientation** is not a sin. But don’t put that thing in your mouth! :eek: I hear ya. But it’s baby-steps for those old child molesting bastards. And as long as the steps are forward, I’ll give them the astronomical time it will take to get their shit together. (while in no way condoning the kiddie shit!! Fuckin Roman Catholic What-The-Fuck!!) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/35 "2013-07-30T23:34:20Z")
Keep in mind that the Catholic church moves at the pace off a snail on valium. There are still people bitching about Vatican II, (who think that the church should go back to saying Mass in Latin). In the context of the Vatican, this is actually a pretty big step. They’re not going to change over night. In fact, he pissed off quite a number of cardinals when he said atheists can go to Heaven for fuck’s sake. In the mean time, are you involved in any organizations to try and change things within the Catholic church from within? What are you personally doing? I know it’s not what you want to hear, **Valteron** , but like I said, context. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/36 "2013-07-30T23:35:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > They’re not going to change over night. In fact, he pissed off quite a number of cardinals when he said atheists can go to Heaven for fuck’s sake. In fact, I understand he was forced to backpedal on that point. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/37 "2013-07-30T23:36:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m not Catholic so I don’t care. But you do have to live in a world with a whole lot of Catholics in it, and in some countries they can vote. We can ignore the faith but not the faithful. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/38 "2013-07-30T23:37:58Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > In the mean time, are you involved in any organizations to try and change things within the Catholic church from within? E.g., with dynamite? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/39 "2013-07-31T01:06:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Keep in mind that the Catholic church moves at the pace off a snail on valium. There are still people bitching about Vatican II, (who think that the church should go back to saying Mass in Latin). In the context of the Vatican, this is actually a pretty big step. > > They’re not going to change over night. In fact, he pissed off quite a number of cardinals when he said atheists can go to Heaven for fuck’s sake. In the mean time, are you involved in any organizations to try and change things within the Catholic church from within? What are you personally doing? > > I know it’s not what you want to hear, **Valteron** , but like I said, context. I walked out of the Catholic Church about 50 years ago when I realized there was no room for a gay person. I am now an atheist, BTW. Changing the Church from within is one of the biggest crocks there is. As long as they have you in their church attending mass and giving them money, you can try and change things all you want. They don’t care. You see, the whole trick of the Catholic Church is that by being ultra-reactionary and conservative, they give people the impression they must be in posession of some eternal and unalterable truth. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946/40 "2013-07-31T01:16:08Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > You see, the whole trick of the Catholic Church is that by being ultra-reactionary and conservative, they give people the impression they must be in posession of some eternal and unalterable truth. Quite true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-popes-bullshit-attempt-to-appear-liberal-about-gays/664946.md?page=3)