# The Possibility of a Trump Impeachment - what would be legit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 24, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854 "2016-11-24T00:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/41 "2016-11-28T14:36:15Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Committing a felony is trivial? Wow. It would be helpful to distinguish the technical violations that rack up the “three felonies a day” statistic from actual serious crimes. I’ll even stipulate that perjury generally falls into the latter category, but the caveat must be front and center. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/42 "2016-11-28T16:12:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He can be impeached for pretty much anything the House wants to. > > If they think whatever it is amounts to a high crime or misdemeanor, they can impeach. If 2/3s of the Senate agrees, he is removed and barred from office and President Pence is sworn in. On some level that would be a best-case scenario. > > Of course, the House and Senate would have to answer for it in the next elections. > > Regards, > Shodan The interesting scenario is that it could be the Republicans trying their best to remove him from office and the Democrats doing their best to keep Trump in office, thinking that he enhances their chances for 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/43 "2016-11-28T16:27:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > One thing I have not seen adequately answered\*, if something comes to light that happened before he was sworn in as president can he be impeached for that? > > \*I’m sure it has been answered but but research skills have been lacking. It’s never happened, but nothing prevents it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/44 "2016-11-28T16:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Brian Ekers** : > > Possibly, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s well-insulated behind layers of tax lawyers, each of whom is well-skilled at obfuscation. Trump’s term could be over by the time it gets sorted out. You’d think so, but then, Trump’s tax lawyers weren’t competent enough to even file the right paperwork for his foundation. He’s never been any good at picking employees based on their actual merits, and I see no reason to expect him to start now. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/45 "2016-11-28T16:37:33Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I don’t have specific cites. So, in petulance, I will note that you also altered what I said by specifying “lied to a grand jury” which also wasn’t what I said. > > Do you seriously believe that there have never been 2,000 pounds of politicians who have lied in legal depositions and not been punished for it? Like, rilly, dude? Fantasyland. Note that Judge Walter Nixon was impeached and convicted for lying to a grand jury by many of the Democratic Senators that within 2 years would claim perjury is not an impeachable offense. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/46 "2016-11-28T16:48:12Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > Lying about having an adulterous affair is trivial. He would never have been asked about it by a grand jury if the conservatives had not pushed it. The whole matter was as trivial as it gets. You’re new here, so I’m going to give this a pass. In the future please be sure to follow moderator instructions in a given thread. The post #37 immediately prior to yours stated that the subject of Bill Clinton was off limits for this thread. Please do not continue this hijack. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/47 "2016-11-28T17:02:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You’d think so, but then, Trump’s tax lawyers weren’t competent enough to even file the right paperwork for his foundation. He’s never been any good at picking employees based on their actual merits, and I see no reason to expect him to start now. Was it incompetence or Trump not wanting to do the audits and other controls required by the State? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/48 "2016-11-28T17:17:51Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Note that Judge Walter Nixon was impeached and convicted for lying to a grand jury by many of the Democratic Senators that within 2 years would claim perjury is not an impeachable offense. This also is continuing the hijack. Please take note of moderator instructions in a given thread. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/49 "2016-11-28T17:52:43Z")
I think it is important to point out – as I virtually always do in these threads – that the person who popularized the phrase about impeachment being whatever the House decides it is – Gerald Ford – is often misrepresented in what he meant that phrase to mean. It is very common to interpret the phrase as meaning, “The President gave the stink-eye to the Speaker – let’s impeach him!” and that no quibble with such a move would have a basis in constitutional text. But Ford’s speech on the matter makes clear that he saw a significant difference between the standard for impeachment as the Constitution intends for judges – that they hold their office during “good behavior” – and what the Constitution intends for civil officers, and that the barrier to impeachment for civil officers is higher than for judges. That being said, he generally acknowledges that if the Congress went off and impeached the President for throwing shade at the Speaker, nobody could effectively overturn such an act despite Congress exceeding the direction given in the Constitution. > **[700415.pdf](https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/speeches/700415.pdf)** > > 3.14 MB ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/50 "2016-11-28T22:43:55Z")
Some other felony examples. > **[8 Ways We Regularly Commit Felonies Without Realizing It](https://www.mic.com/articles/86797/8-ways-we-regularly-commit-felonies-without-realizing-it)** > > You might even commit a felony or two today, who knows?  > The fact is that we live in an overcriminalized society where vague federal laws are dangerous for everyone, lawyers, judges and police officers included. This ambiguity invites varying… ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/51 "2016-11-29T02:01:30Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Why are we discussing Clinton? This thread is about Trump. > > I’m declaring hijack. Take the Clinton discussion to another thread. > [@Bone](#): > > You’re new here, so I’m going to give this a pass. In the future please be sure to follow moderator instructions in a given thread. The post #37 immediately prior to yours stated that the subject of Bill Clinton was off limits for this thread. Please do not continue this hijack. With all due respect, it’s very difficult to talk about Presidential impeachment without discussing historical examples. Of which we have only two: Andrew Johnson, and umm, that other guy. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/52 "2016-11-29T06:10:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This also is continuing the hijack. Please take note of moderator instructions in a given thread. > > [/moderating] Honestly I did not mean it as a hijack. It was meant more as a reflection of the political nature of an impeachment and trial. Basically Person A was convicted of perjury to a grand jury (IIRC 98-0) but two years later some of those in the Senate said it was not impeachable. I didn’t even mention Clinton by name in order to avoid it being seen as a “Clinton impeachment” post. Plus I think it addresses the OP’s question “What might be reality-based issues that would warrant impeachment?” Trump is involved in a lot of lawsuits so is perjury impeachable? Some say yes and some say “depends on his political party” or “is he a judge or a President”? So please answer this: are we not allowed to discuss if perjury is an impeachable offense? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/53 "2016-11-29T11:23:06Z")
I’m going to say no. There have been two notes already that specify that involving Bill Clinton in this thread is verboten. The reason I issued the first one is that this sort of thread will find it easy to be hijacked into a discussion of Clinton where the OP is discussing other causes of a possible Trump impeachment. Stick to the OP and don’t get side tracked. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/54 "2016-11-29T11:48:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **running coach** : > > Was it incompetence or Trump not wanting to do the audits and other controls required by the State? That’d only work if the state didn’t know about the Foundation at all. But its existence was public knowledge and they still didn’t have the proper paperwork, which increased (indeed, guaranteed) the chance of unfavorable attention from the state, not decrease it. Of course, it’s still possible that Trump’s lawyers were competent and advised him on the correct way to do things but that Trump ignored them because Trump. But the effect there is the same, and he’d be just as likely to ignore his lawyers on other critical matters. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854/55 "2016-11-29T18:14:28Z")
Since Trump doesn’t drink (I believe), [being an alcoholic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_W._Delahay) would not seem to apply. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possibility-of-a-trump-impeachment-what-would-be-legit/772854.md?page=2)