# The possible results of the Impeachment in the Senate. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916 "2019-12-15T22:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/21 "2019-12-16T23:56:47Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think Susan Collins will vote guilty, but GOP guilty votes won’t even get close to double digits & she might be the only one. Collins will vote to acquit but she’ll furrow her brows. Much furrowing. Maybe a sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/22 "2019-12-17T00:24:45Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > A third of Americans will be satisfied by this, a third will be disgusted, and a third won’t bother to look up from the porn on their phones long enough to watch. That’s unacceptable. That’s what a PC is for! ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/23 "2019-12-17T01:55:02Z")
I voted number one because there seems to be new rules every week about protocol or process or whatever. Number two is more probable. It gives GOPers the chance to show their weird solidarity to their party. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/24 "2019-12-17T02:33:18Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Number two is more probable. A whole heaping pile of Number Two is probable. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/25 "2019-12-17T02:37:13Z")
It’s possible the Republicans will first try to call people like Pelosi, Hunter Biden, etc. to the witness stand. But if, after a few such testimonies, the GOP isn’t getting the desired effect, it may then swiftly cut proceedings short and go to vote time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/26 "2019-12-17T03:26:41Z")
dbl ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/27 "2019-12-17T03:25:17Z")
Now **ten** posters voted for #3, none of whom have posted comments. Odd. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/28 "2019-12-17T03:55:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now **ten** posters voted for #3, none of whom have posted comments. Odd. It’s common in threads (especially IMHO) for polls to turn out this way. People will vote for some option but not want to support it publicly because they think they might get dogpiled. I think we’ve even had poll threads where some poll option was the _majority_, and yet just about no one would voice their support for that option out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/29 "2019-12-17T07:08:10Z")
The Republicans have already said out loud that they are not impartial, that there will be no trial. They have pre-determined the outcome, and have blatantly said that they are not planning to have any kind of process. They’ve said this. Why would anybody expect different from them? Essentially, they have said “we are in the majority, and we have determined that Trump is a King. Fuck you.” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/30 "2019-12-17T07:41:29Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I think Susan Collins will vote guilty, but GOP guilty votes won’t even get close to double digits & she might be the only one. I don’t see her voting guilty. The people who would hate her for voting not guilty already hate her for Kavanaugh, and she doesn’t need to add to that by pissing off the MAGA crowd. She also has a card that most Republican senators don’t, which is that she voted to acquit Bill Clinton on both counts in 1999. So she can furrow her brow and talk about how terrible it is that there have been _two_ improper partisan impeachments during her tenure. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/31 "2019-12-18T00:14:21Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The Republicans have already said out loud that they are not impartial, that there will be no trial. They have pre-determined the outcome, and have blatantly said that they are not planning to have any kind of process. > > They’ve said this. Why would anybody expect different from them? > > Essentially, they have said “we are in the majority, and we have determined that Trump is a King. Fuck you.” That’s right. And this is leading more public figures to say ‘vote on Impeachment and then delay sending the Articles to the Senate until McConnell commits to a fair (and real) trial’: > [@](#): > > BREAKING (MSNBC): U.S. Senator Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) Floats Idea of House Not Sending Articles of Impeachment to Senate Unless GOP Agrees to Actual Trial\* > > - = I increasingly concur with this sentiment. > > 1/ Imagine how _angry_ Trump would be if he never got his “show-trial exoneration” because he refused to let his own officials testify under circumstances in which he’s _sworn_ that no one could possibly have damning evidence against him\*. OK, sorry then, no Senate trial for you. > > 2/ As I said earlier today: you don’t negotiate over _how many punches in the face you’re going to take_; you _exit the ring_. If the Senate refuses to have a trial, there’s no one and nothing for House Democrats to hand over the articles of impeachment to. It’s that simple, now. > > 3/ Investigations are still ongoing. Court proceedings are still ongoing. Moderate GOP senators have more or less made clear that they don’t want a trial. OK then, you don’t get the articles. The investigations and court proceedings will continue. It’s a very reasonable position. > …[two more points] > **[Seth Abramson... - Democratic Underground Forums](https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212791318)** I’m not sure Abramson is right about Van Hollen–or at least if he did say that on MSNBC today, it’s not yet visible online. Here’s Laurence Tribe, though: > [@](#): > > Harvard Law professor Laurence Tribe recently tweeted that if McConnell “rejects these reasonable ground rules & insists on a non-trial, the House should consider treating that as a breach of the Senate’s oath & withholding the Articles until the Senate reconsiders.” He later clarified in a follow-up tweet that “by ‘withholding’ the Articles I don’t mean not voting for them — I mean voting for them but holding off on transmitting them to the Senate.” > > Tribe elaborated on this idea further in an email to Salon, comparing this process to a corrupt trial in criminal court… > > Tribe concluded that Pelosi should let that sword keep hanging there until McConnell and Schumer can reach agreement “on how to conduct the closest possible approximation to a fair trial under the politically charged circumstances.” > > Would such a maneuver be legal and constitutional? Tribe admitted there is no precedent, but argued it would be “fully consistent with the text, structure, history, and purposes of the Impeachment Power as outlined in the Constitution.” > > …Allan Lichtman, a political history professor at American University, told Salon that Tribe’s suggestion makes political as well as legal sense. > > “On a matter as grave as removing a president, the Senate must hold a full trial with both sides able to call live witnesses and present relevant documents. If closed-minded Republicans in the Senate refuse to do so, the House’s only recourse is to withhold the articles of impeachment until the Senate agrees to a real trial,” Lichtman explained. … > **[Mitch McConnell wants a show trial — but Democrats don't have to give him one](https://www.salon.com/2019/12/16/mitch-mcconnell-wants-a-show-trial-but-democrats-dont-have-to-give-him-one/)** > > McConnell has promised a Senate trial shaped to Trump's whims. Democrats can fight back, if they have the guts The _Salon_ article is lengthy and worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/32 "2019-12-18T01:06:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now **ten** posters voted for #3, none of whom have posted comments. Odd. Don’t look at me. I join several others who applaud you for your accurate estimates in #1. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/33 "2019-12-18T02:11:32Z")
Since we know the acquittal is certain, the more interesting question is will any Republican vote to convict. Incidentally, I predict that Susan Collins’s reelection chances are very low, no matter how she votes. If she votes to convict, she will be primaried. If sho votes to acquit, she will lose the general election. I voted for #2 incidentally. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/34 "2019-12-18T03:34:56Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I voted #1, but it was basically a coin flip between numbers 1 and 2. This with the addendum that I’m nearly always wrong about things like this, so I’m actually hoping for 3 or 4. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/35 "2019-12-18T04:04:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Don’t look at me. I join several others who applaud you for your accurate estimates in #1. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/36 "2019-12-18T07:38:53Z")
I’m boycotting the poll on account of my choice isn’t presented. Mitch allows a long trial, AND it focuses inappropriately on Biden and Clinton, AND it will be long, AND it will end in acquittal, AND there will be nothing real OR fair about it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/37 "2019-12-18T07:44:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How about, at least one Republican senator gets confused and thinks it actually IS about Biden, and accidentally votes “guilty”? > > Hey, a guy can dream. As long as you’re dreaming, why not dream for 50 of them to do that? IT COULD HAPPEN! ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/38 "2019-12-18T08:00:20Z")
Scenario 2.5. Senate drags out/delays trial until SCOTUS rules on challenged subpoenas. If SCOTUS votes to quash those subpoenas then Trump takes a victory lap and Senate votes to table the articles of impeachment and takes no final vote. McConnell makes speech about how Senate will not consider holding a trial for conduct the SCOTUS declared was lawful. If SCOTUS upholds subpoenas then Senate meekly votes to acquit on party line vote. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/39 "2019-12-18T19:05:26Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m boycotting the poll on account of my choice isn’t presented. Mitch allows a long trial, AND it focuses inappropriately on Biden and Clinton, AND it will be long, AND it will end in acquittal, AND there will be nothing real OR fair about it. That is choice 2. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916/40 "2019-12-18T19:20:15Z")
My hope is that the House refuses to send the articles of impeachment to the Senate unless Moscow Mitch agrees to an honest trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-possible-results-of-the-impeachment-in-the-senate/844916.md?page=3)