The Power to Declare War Does Not Rest with the President

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

@BrightNShiny

So? What does this have to do with what I said or what he responded with?

So? Who said otherwise?

Wait, you mean Congress used its WAR MAKING POWER to give prior authorization to the President to conduct his COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF power? You mean that these are actually two separate constitutionally defined powers which have a murky grey area between them?

Because that is what I originally said. Bosda responded with snark or a joke or nonsense. Not sure what it was supposed to be, but no, he doesn’t have a point that responds in any way to what I said.

Ac ually, I did.
You just can’t see it.

The minute War, Total War, became a push button affair, then de facto, the power fell to the President.
Period.
One button = Total War.
No Congress required.

[BrightNShiny]

@Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor

Ac ually, I did.
You just can’t see it.

The minute War, Total War, became a push button affair, then de facto, the power fell to the President.
Period.
One button = Total War.
No Congress required.

Uh, no. We’re talking about the legal issues here. Not whatever nonsense you want to blather about. My statement of the legal issues is correct, and unless you have something legal to add, then don’t respond to me. If you want to talk about political issues or practical issues that’s up to you, but you aren’t responding to anything I’ve said, nor are you making anything approaching a correct statement of law. You are the one who can’t see it.

Furthermore, there is no “Total War” power for the President. Obama, who has claimed fairly broad war-making power, still doesn’t claim total war power. And if you bothered to actually read what I wrote (or bothered to understand it), you would notice that I stated that I didn’t think it was a huge legal argument to move from the currently claimed power to a total power.

However, the legal issues surrounding war-making power did not become irrelevant the minute ICBMs showed up on the scene. This is nonsense you made up, and has nothing to do with the legal relevant issues. Just admit that you don’t understand the legal issues involved and you have no idea what you are talking about from a legal perspective, and we can stop this derail of yours.

[BrightNShiny]

And here is the Obama administration’s memo outlining the legal justification for the intervention in Libya. Notice that nowhere does Obama claim the power to intervene because ICBMs-blah-blah. Because that’s not how this stuff works.

[DingoelGringo]

@John_Mace

I don’t see any significant difference between a declaration of war and an AUMF, like the ones Bush got in 2001 for Afghanistan and 2002 for Iraq. Everyone knows we went to war in those cases, and they are always referred to as wars.

I’m not a huge fan of the War Powers Act, but it should be noted that the constitution says only Congress can declare war, but iit also says the president is the CiC of the military. And it doesn’t define what “war” is.

I doubt there is much confusion as to what war is.

[Little_Nemo]

@BrightNShiny

So? What does this have to do with what I said or what he responded with?

So? Who said otherwise?

Wait, you mean Congress used its WAR MAKING POWER to give prior authorization to the President to conduct his COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF power? You mean that these are actually two separate constitutionally defined powers which have a murky grey area between them?

Because that is what I originally said. Bosda responded with snark or a joke or nonsense. Not sure what it was supposed to be, but no, he doesn’t have a point that responds in any way to what I said.

I’m not sure here. Are you arguing with me or agreeing with me? Because the two seem pretty similar when you do them.

[BrightNShiny]

@Little_Nemo

I’m not sure here. Are you arguing with me or agreeing with me? Because the two seem pretty similar when you do them.

You defended Bosda by agreeing with me. You agree with me, but for some reason you think you don’t.

[Trinopus]

@Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor

. . . The minute War, Total War, became a push button affair, then de facto, the power fell to the President.
Period.
One button = Total War.
No Congress required.

Where I disagree with you is…lesser wars. The invasion of Iraq, for instance, or a possible rescue mission in Benghazi.

Yes, total nuclear annihilation is outside of the power of Congress to regulate.

But there are other kinds of conflicts. Does the President have the legal right to order air strikes against Syria? This is not a wholly settled matter, and the existence of ICBMs doesn’t make it irrelevant.

[UltraVires]

In addition to the other points raised, the political necessities of the day prevents an all out declaration of war.

Let’s say that we have a beef with Canada. We don’t “declare war” on Canada and all of its people and resources. We justify the war by saying that we are only “taking military action” against those who have unlawfully usurped power in Canada and are doing the things we don’t like. We support the lawful Canadian government and its wonderful people. Carpet bombing Calgary is only to root out the insurgents.