# The President and a gun **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 25, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097 "2007-07-25T16:07:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/21 "2007-07-25T18:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] And I suppose there’s the possibility that he could simply pardon himself if he were charged and convicted, though I imagine that would create far more trouble than it would relieve him of. [/QUOTE] Actually, if it’s “some local sheriff” involved, the President probably could not pardon himself, since he’d have been accused of and convicted of a state-level offense. The President can pardon “offenses against the United States,” but not offenses against, say Georgia. This leaves aside the thorny question of whether the President could pardon himself at all, mind you… ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/22 "2007-07-25T19:28:10Z")
What I was trying to ask is, from a legal point of view, does the president have some special authorization for carrying a gun, because of some clause in federal laws or whatnot? Bricker has already partly answered that question, saying that he (the president) could have the Secretary of the Treasury designate him (the president) as an agent of the Treasury Department. But it seems that this is not inherent in the office of the presidency, and would require the president taking special action. I agree that, from a practical matter, if the president chose to carry a gun in a holster under his coat, I doubt that anyone would bother searching him or charging him with any breach of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/23 "2007-07-25T20:00:10Z")
The thread [Can the POTUS CCW?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=302420) did not find an definite answer. One suggestion was Bush probably has fire arms at the Crawford ranch. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/24 "2007-07-25T21:00:55Z")
[QUOTE=Kozmik] The thread [Can the POTUS CCW?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=302420) did not find an definite answer. One suggestion was Bush probably has fire arms at the Crawford ranch. [/QUOTE] That was my thread. I asked the same question in several other sites, all pro-gun. My question differs from this OP as I don’t care if he does or not, I wanted to know if he legally can. I’ve done executive protection assignments. It would be quite hard to protect someone if, at the same time, they were also getting into the shit and shooting back. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/25 "2007-07-25T22:58:58Z")
There are only two agencies that have explicit statutory authority to provide personal security to the executive branch: the State Department and the Secret Service. Still, there are many others that can point to less than explicit statutes, regulatory authority, or Supreme Court decisions indicating a general inherent power to act at the direction of the President or Attorney General. The U.S. Marshal Service has a nice one, [Cunningham v. Neagle](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=135&invol=1), 135 U.S. 1 (1890). Agency heads have a general power to issue policies and directives, often including the power to carry firearms. Like **Bricker** said, there are several circumstances where cabinet members can authorize the carrying of firearms. Another example is that the AG can authorize the Director of the U.S. Marshals Service to deputize U.S. Attorney personnel as “Special Deputy United States Marshals” so that they can carry firearms for self protection when threats are made on their lives. There’s no explict statutory authority for them to do so - it’s an order of the Attorney General found in the Code of Federal Regulations, 28 C.F.R. § 0.112. I can’t imagine that the President couldn’t issue an executive order granting himself the same authority if he felt the need. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/26 "2007-07-26T00:27:44Z")
Wouldn’t specifics on the nature of weapons and tactics used in the protection of the President, including any carried by that individual, be considered classified? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/27 "2007-07-26T00:40:11Z")
[QUOTE=jnglmassiv] Wouldn’t specifics on the nature of weapons and tactics used in the protection of the President, including any carried by that individual, be considered classified? [/QUOTE] Only in certain specifics. Executive protection is a well-understood business, and anyone with any kind of real experience in that field will be able to figure out about 90-95% of what the Secret Service does as far as protection goes. The weapons, technology, and proceedures are all more-or-less off the shelf. The Presidential Protective Detail will get the best and latest, but it’s not _that_ exotic. What’s _really_ secret are the plans for each move, and the communication protocols. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/28 "2007-07-26T02:17:52Z")
What if the President wanted to make a political statement. Say Bush is the keynote speaker at an NRA meeting, in that context he might bear arms. Remember Charlton Heston showing off his rifle? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/29 "2007-07-26T08:52:30Z")
Did Eisenhower carry a firearm? ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/30 "2007-07-26T11:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Did Eisenhower carry a firearm? [/QUOTE] Only before he became a zombie. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/31 "2007-07-26T16:35:13Z")
All Law Enforcement Officers are exempt from CCW laws. You don’t see D.C. cops getting arrested for carrying guns do you? The President is the HEAD of the federal law enforcement, the top dog. If anyone can carry it is him. If that’s not good enough, he is the Commander in Chief of the military. You don’t arrest soldiers at Ft. Bragg for carrying guns, right? I don’t think G.W. Bush carries. If he did, it would be pretty silly. It would be like having Martha Steward and Emeril LaGasse right next to you and cooking your own hamburger. Also, when TX passed their CCW permit laws, they reserved nos. 1 and 2 for George and Laura, but neither applied. I know for a fact that Teddy Roosevelt carried daily. I’m not sure of anyone else… ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/32 "2007-07-26T16:38:35Z")
[QUOTE=Kozmik] What if the President wanted to make a political statement. Say Bush is the keynote speaker at an NRA meeting, in that context he might bear arms. Remember Charlton Heston showing off his rifle? [/QUOTE] As was mentioned above, Clinton went duck hunting at least once. If Bush wanted to have a rifle at an NRA convention, I’m sure something would be arranged. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/33 "2007-07-26T16:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > All Law Enforcement Officers are exempt from CCW laws. You don’t see D.C. cops getting arrested for carrying guns do you? The President is the HEAD of the federal law enforcement, the top dog. If anyone can carry it is him. > > If that’s not good enough, he is the Commander in Chief of the military. You don’t arrest soldiers at Ft. Bragg for carrying guns, right? Just because the President is in charge of an organization it doesn’t automatically follow that he is a member of that organization. ---
**Author:** ![Thrash\_the\_Almighty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90ced4/32.png) [@Thrash\_the\_Almighty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thrash_the_Almighty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/34 "2007-07-26T18:27:23Z")
Not a gun, but still relevant perhaps. In 1835 a man attempted to be the first presidential assassin. He fired two pistols at Andrew Jackson. Both misfired. Jackson responded by severely beating the man with his cane. Davy Crockett had to pull the president off his would be killer. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/35 "2007-07-26T19:53:04Z")
Evil Overlord rule #27: I will never build only one of anything important. All important systems will have redundant control panels and power supplies. **For the same reason I will always carry at least two fully loaded weapons at all times.** (Emphasis added.) Rule #120: Since nothing is more irritating than a hero defeating you with basic math skills, all of my personal weapons will be modified to fire one more shot than the standard issue. If it’s good enough for Evil Overlords, it should be good enough for the President, the current one or any other. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/36 "2007-07-26T20:21:39Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Just because the President is in charge of an organization it doesn’t automatically follow that he is a member of that organization. [/QUOTE] It seems like semantics. A foot soldier ultimately reports to the President (after several intermediates). A U.S. Marshall ultimately reports to the President. It would be a contortion of logic to say that privileges are granted to everyone EXCEPT the overall leader. Also, it would be foolish to tell the leader of the free world, the man who, on his own will, could launch thousands of nuclear weapons and guarantee the destruction of all life on the Earth, that he cannot be trusted with a 9mm pistol..!? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/37 "2007-07-26T20:29:27Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Also, it would be foolish to tell the leader of the free world, the man who, on his own will, could launch thousands of nuclear weapons and guarantee the destruction of all life on the Earth, that he cannot be trusted with a 9mm pistol..!? [/QUOTE] Not _this_ President. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/38 "2007-07-26T20:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=Kozmik] What if the President wanted to make a political statement. Say Bush is the keynote speaker at an NRA meeting, in that context he might bear arms. Remember Charlton Heston showing off his rifle? [/QUOTE] In the context of the OP, I thought the discussion was more along the lines of a concealed weapon, such as a pistol, not toting a Kentucky Long Rifle everywhere he goes like Daniel Boone. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/39 "2007-07-26T20:34:27Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] …the man who, on his own will, could launch thousands of nuclear weapons and guarantee the destruction of all life on the Earth, that he cannot be trusted with a 9mm pistol..!? [/QUOTE] Not true, and not true. Per the SIOP, it requires two people at the National Command Authority level to authorize use of strategic weapons. Even if _all_ the nucelar weapons on earth were used, in the most destructve pattern possible, all at once, it would still be insufficient to sterilize the terrestrial surface of the earth, and wouldn’t even _begin_ to scratch the oceans. Even supposing “nuclear winter” were a guaranteed result (which assertion is problematic), surviving terrestrial life would move a long. _Humans_ might be in for a rough go of it for a while, but even humanity would likely survive. Yes, things would look different, and species numbers and distributions would change, but “changed” and “different” != destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2007, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097/40 "2007-07-26T20:35:13Z")
Even up until WWII, Washington was a sleepy town. You could drive right up to the (south?) portico in your own car, as it was sometimes used to get out of a thunderstorm. Everything changed during the war of course, and there was some talk of painting the white house black. Eleanor Roosevelt (aka “horseface”) was known to pack heat, and it wouldn’t surprise me if FDR did as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-and-a-gun/413097.md?page=3)