# The President Elimination Game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 24, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317 "2009-09-24T01:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/881 "2009-12-21T20:43:48Z")
Bill Clinton ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/882 "2009-12-21T20:46:33Z")
At this point I’d say we are left with, essentially, the good presidents, leaders that future holders of the office might be encouraged to emulate. It’s no longer time to talk about black marks on their records; it’s time to assess their legacies. (For the record, now is when I’d be voting against Taylor and Madison had they survived.) Remaining, we have the elite presidents: Washington, Lincoln, FDR. Teddy is very nearly in this class as well. I think I’ve seen a vote or two for Washington and FDR, but it’s not time to seriously consider these guys for elimination. Then we have the very good presidents of the 20th century: Eisenhower and Truman, who led the country through the brink of the apocalypse and whom history has treated well. If you read their legacies differently than I do, you might consider their ouster, but I’d say it’s still too early. Which brings us to the five men on the chopping block: Jefferson, Polk, Monroe, Clinton, and Cleveland. Thomas Jefferson may well be the greatest figure in American civic history. He elucidated the Enlightenment intellectual foundations of the American Experiment, was a superlative diplomat and champion of freedom, and remains the architect of the greatest system of higher education in the world. Amazing man. However, even he recognized that his presidency did not go as well as he would have liked. It’s probably no exaggeration to say that his time in the office was the low point of his career, and I’m tempted to vote for him now. That said, without Jefferson’s presidency, I wouldn’t be sitting where I am today as an American. His vision in completing the Louisiana Purchase and the Lewis and Clark expeditions may well be the defining moment in the United States’ ascension as a world power. Call the Purchase a happy accident if you like, but it’s not time to vote for Jefferson. Likewise Polk. Lincoln and Thoreau vilified him as a conqueror, and there’s a point to be made there, but is the world a greater place for his violations of some Platonic categorical imperative? A cursor glance at the differences between Mexico and the American West over the last century and a half indicate that it was. Had I lived in the 1840s, I may well have marched against him in the streets, but his legacy stands. Monroe’s legacy is none so grandiose. He did the job competently, and there are no great sins to lay at his feet. That said, his only lasting legacy – that I can think of – is the anti-imperialist doctrine that today bears his name. He’s a candidate for elimination, but it does speak volumes that he came within one vote of unanimous reelection in 1820. It’s not yet his time. Which brings us to Bill Clinton. With the possible exception of the Cold Warriors, Clinton faced the greatest challenges of any peacetime president in our history. He faced a radical right wing galvanized against him, honesty be damned. He faced accusations and scrutiny perhaps unparalleled in world history. Further, without the counterbalance of the Warsaw Pact, the temptation to play God with the world must have been enormous. Clinton resisted. The failures of his successor indicate just how great a disaster was averted by his measured, thorough style. As has been said repeatedly, eight years of peace and prosperity is nothing to sneeze at. That said, his legacy was essentially obliterated within the first year of the Bush administration. Competent as his presidency was, his accomplishments were not lasting. That, and his actions brought shame to American progressives as he became the first – and, one would hope, the only – president whose semen was forensically examined during his term. It is difficult to take pride in the man. That said, my vote this time out is for Grover Cleveland. Like Clinton, his first term was marked by an unspectacular competence unappreciated by the electorate, who dispensed with his services in favor of Harrison. When Cleveland returned in 1893, he was faced with incipient economic crisis, to which he responded in measured tones. He was a good president by most measures, the kind of guy I’d like in the office, but his legacy is also unspectacular. He did not shape his age, and it is difficult to imagine how he improved our world. That, and his Pygmalion approach to his eventual marriage is perhaps as distasteful to modern observers as Clinton’s errant spray. It’s close between Cleveland and Clinton, but the fact of the matter is that Clinton faced MUCH more profound challenges than his predecessor of a century before, and that’s a tiebreaker in my estimation. I vote for Grover Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/883 "2009-12-21T21:10:29Z")
Cleveland was overall a better President than Monroe, I’d say, and governed in more difficult times. Monroe’s eponymous doctrine was largely the work of his SecState, J.Q. Adams, anyway. Not much else to point to for eight years in office. Monroe. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/884 "2009-12-21T22:55:38Z")
Cleveland ---
**Author:** ![gloriye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gloriye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gloriye)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/885 "2009-12-21T23:22:28Z")
Polk ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/886 "2009-12-21T23:39:45Z")
Cleveland ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/887 "2009-12-21T23:54:58Z")
Clinton ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/888 "2009-12-22T01:35:03Z")
Sadly, I’ve been convinced away from Polk and onto Monroe. ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/889 "2009-12-22T01:57:42Z")
Clinton. His prosperity made him believe that business was wise enough to monitor itself. Even attempts at transparency into Wallstreet and banking practices were shot down. He wasn’t alone in being enchanted by Greenspan, but he is the last one (voteable) whose policies have brought us the recent financial crisis. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/890 "2009-12-22T02:45:02Z")
Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Makeitstop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@Makeitstop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Makeitstop)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/891 "2009-12-22T03:06:33Z")
Its down to the ‘good’ presidents now. Tough calls all around. I’ll go with Monroe at this point. but I can be swayed rather easily. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/892 "2009-12-22T03:18:29Z")
I vote for Cleveland again (but not consecutively). ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/893 "2009-12-22T03:20:40Z")
Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/894 "2009-12-22T03:29:28Z")
Wow, it’s getting tight. Bill Clinton ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/895 "2009-12-22T16:53:17Z")
Cleveland, but only because I am a Monroe Scholar and biased. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/896 "2009-12-22T16:57:14Z")
Clinton, for reasons I have stated previously. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/897 "2009-12-22T17:06:02Z")
Bonus vote count because I was curious: Clinton 9 Cleveland 7 Monroe 4 Polk 1 ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/898 "2009-12-22T19:04:49Z")
Looks like Grover and “Slick Willie” will be the next two to be eliminated. My hope is that by tomorrow afternoon, [an old slogan](http://www.presidentsusa.net/1884slogan.html) can be rewritten: “Ma, Ma, where’s my Pa?” “Gone from the **Pres Game** , Ha, Ha, Ha!” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/899 "2009-12-22T21:33:07Z")
> [@Sternvogel](#): > > Looks like Grover and “Slick Willie” will be the next two to be eliminated… Huh. Two plump but competent reform-minded Democratic ex-governors with sex scandals who each served two terms in the White House late in their respective centuries. Whodathunkit? ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/900 "2009-12-23T02:02:43Z")
Clinton, for the statistical reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317.md?page=46)