# The President Elimination Game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 24, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317 "2009-09-24T01:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1141 "2010-01-15T00:43:30Z")
Washington. While he voluntarily gave up the title of King, he was still complacent in some of the most heinous acts the country has ever endorsed. I don’t blame him though, as it was the zeitgeist at the time, but against Lincoln then he has to drop a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1142 "2010-01-15T00:45:13Z")
> [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > I underrated Washington for a long time, but I still won’t rank him above Lincoln. > > In an earlier post, I held off voting against Thomas Jefferson because, without his action in making the Louisiana Purchase, I would not be sitting here as an American. The same can probably be said of Lincoln, and he may be due even more credit. In 1860, James Buchanan vetoed the first iteration of the Homestead Act. In 1862, Lincoln signed it, facilitating the settlement of the west by numerous small farmers and, by extension, small-to-large merchants, as opposed to wealthy plantation owners served by slaves or unlanded laborers. > > What we lose sight of in evaluating Lincoln’s anti-slavery is his economic reasoning in addition to his ethical rhetoric. Slavery is an economics of poverty–only those at the top, free or slave, have any reasonable economic opportunity. The real impact of Lincoln’s work goes beyond freeing the slaves and preserving the union. Washington’s precedents were invaluable, but Lincoln’s policies, I would reckon, were more influential in the development of the US as a great nation. You’re wrong on Jefferson, almost any President would have taken that deal that Jefferson had to be convinced to take. However on Lincoln, I have far less to argue. This is tough. As many point out, George probably could have been King George the 1st or at least President for life. That he set the example speaks volumes. I also respect the man for freeing all of his slaves in the end. Completely unlike that Jefferson fellow. So in the end I will vote Lincoln out so Washington can win. **Lincoln**. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1143 "2010-01-15T01:00:55Z")
I remember when one of the semi-educational cable channels (I think it was TLC) had a “Greatest American” special where they counted down the greatest Americans (not just presidents) as voted by viewers. The top 5 were: 1. Ben Franklin 2. George Washington 3. Martin Luther King 4. Abe Lincoln 5. Ronald Reagan Reagan’s placement aside, I was even more shocked that Washington came in 4th. As has been said by others, his presidency was crucial in establishing the system of government that we have today, particularly the role of the President. The United States could have ended up very differently without his leadership. Lincoln deserves a lot of credit, plenty can and has been said in his favor, but I would have to vote for him as the last name to be removed from the list. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1144 "2010-01-15T01:21:53Z")
Lincoln, tho I hate to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Highpockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19adc/32.png) [@Highpockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Highpockets)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1145 "2010-01-15T01:38:42Z")
Washington ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1146 "2010-01-15T01:40:22Z")
Theodore Roosevelt Easy. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1147 "2010-01-15T02:12:54Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Theodore Roosevelt > > Easy. Um… we’re a bit past that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1148 "2010-01-15T03:21:25Z")
Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1149 "2010-01-15T05:56:34Z")
Lincoln… ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1150 "2010-01-15T06:01:19Z")
Tough choice, but I’m voting to eliminate Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1151 "2010-01-15T09:37:57Z")
Lincoln. Very tough choice – very, very tough. I’m dropping Lincoln on points, as he never had a chance to follow through on Reconstruction, although what I know of his intentions is admirable. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1152 "2010-01-15T09:53:48Z")
Lincoln, alas. ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1153 "2010-01-15T16:54:46Z")
Very tough call. I’ll vote Washington being eliminated because most of the things I admire him for were done before he was President. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1154 "2010-01-15T17:28:14Z")
Early returns: Lincoln - 11 Washington - 8 Damn. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1155 "2010-01-15T17:49:05Z")
Reading [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11996986&postcount=55), I see that Lincoln was also the first president to recognize Haiti as an independent nation – almost sixty years after they actually achieved independence. Some quarters charge that Lincoln still had long-range plans to colonize various parts of the Carribean and Latin America during his presidency. This sort of diplomacy would tend to belie that, I think. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1156 "2010-01-15T19:37:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > In an upset, Theodore Roosevelt survives while his younger cousin (and, in fact, Eleanor Roosevelt was more closely related to Teddy than Franklin was) is voted out. Teddy was Eleanor’s uncle. The two Presidents were _fifth_-cousins, a relationship so distant that they likely would have been unaware of it except that, since the connecting path was all-male, it led to the shared surname. I withdrew from the game for fear my Roosevelt preference was based on ignorance. I _thought_ FDR was considered to be the “greater” President, and _do_ admire him, but my instinct was to prefer Teddy. It was delightful to see Dopers validate my instinct. I wouldn’t want to try to pick between the guy on the penny and the guy on the dollar-bill either, but just to be a trouble-maker: Some Presidents were eliminated here for their wars. What about the Civil War, which killed more than all other American Wars put together? (Assuming deaths include civilians and Confederates.) Yes, Lincoln preserved the Union, but sometimes I wonder if that was such a good thing. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1157 "2010-01-15T21:26:01Z")
Washington ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1158 "2010-01-15T21:49:38Z")
Washington. We’re dealing with two mythical figures who are no longer real men, but co-opted symbols Americans pour their hopes and dreams into. Lincoln serves the function far better by having been assassinated. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1159 "2010-01-16T01:07:08Z")
> [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > …Some quarters charge that Lincoln still had long-range plans to colonize various parts of the Carribean and Latin America during his presidency. This sort of diplomacy would tend to belie that, I think. Just sayin. I disagree. It’s true that Lincoln did favor “colonization” (the return of American blacks to Africa) for much of his adult life, as did many abolitionists who wanted to end slavery but thought that equality and peaceful coexistence after that would be forever unattainable. But by the time he was President, from all I’ve read, Lincoln had come to recognize that African Americans were here to stay. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317/1160 "2010-01-16T01:15:19Z")
Washington. Lincoln serves as not just a historical figure but also a form of ideal. Washington does too, of course, but his is a mythic ideal that’s less relevant today IMO, whereas Lincoln’s is extraordinarily human, pragmatic, and universal. I must choose the human over the deity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-elimination-game/511317.md?page=59)