While he voluntarily gave up the title of King, he was still complacent in some of the most heinous acts the country has ever endorsed. I don’t blame him though, as it was the zeitgeist at the time, but against Lincoln then he has to drop a little bit.
You’re wrong on Jefferson, almost any President would have taken that deal that Jefferson had to be convinced to take. However on Lincoln, I have far less to argue.
This is tough. As many point out, George probably could have been King George the 1st or at least President for life. That he set the example speaks volumes. I also respect the man for freeing all of his slaves in the end. Completely unlike that Jefferson fellow. So in the end I will vote Lincoln out so Washington can win.
I remember when one of the semi-educational cable channels (I think it was TLC) had a “Greatest American” special where they counted down the greatest Americans (not just presidents) as voted by viewers. The top 5 were:
Ben Franklin
George Washington
Martin Luther King
Abe Lincoln
Ronald Reagan
Reagan’s placement aside, I was even more shocked that Washington came in 4th. As has been said by others, his presidency was crucial in establishing the system of government that we have today, particularly the role of the President. The United States could have ended up very differently without his leadership.
Lincoln deserves a lot of credit, plenty can and has been said in his favor, but I would have to vote for him as the last name to be removed from the list.
Very tough choice – very, very tough. I’m dropping Lincoln on points, as he never had a chance to follow through on Reconstruction, although what I know of his intentions is admirable.
Reading this thread, I see that Lincoln was also the first president to recognize Haiti as an independent nation – almost sixty years after they actually achieved independence.
Some quarters charge that Lincoln still had long-range plans to colonize various parts of the Carribean and Latin America during his presidency. This sort of diplomacy would tend to belie that, I think. Just sayin.
Teddy was Eleanor’s uncle. The two Presidents were fifth-cousins, a relationship so distant that they likely would have been unaware of it except that, since the connecting path was all-male, it led to the shared surname.
I withdrew from the game for fear my Roosevelt preference was based on ignorance. I thought FDR was considered to be the “greater” President, and do admire him, but my instinct was to prefer Teddy. It was delightful to see Dopers validate my instinct.
I wouldn’t want to try to pick between the guy on the penny and the guy on the dollar-bill either, but just to be a trouble-maker: Some Presidents were eliminated here for their wars. What about the Civil War, which killed more than all other American Wars put together? (Assuming deaths include civilians and Confederates.)
Yes, Lincoln preserved the Union, but sometimes I wonder if that was such a good thing. :dubious:
Washington. We’re dealing with two mythical figures who are no longer real men, but co-opted symbols Americans pour their hopes and dreams into. Lincoln serves the function far better by having been assassinated.
I disagree. It’s true that Lincoln did favor “colonization” (the return of American blacks to Africa) for much of his adult life, as did many abolitionists who wanted to end slavery but thought that equality and peaceful coexistence after that would be forever unattainable. But by the time he was President, from all I’ve read, Lincoln had come to recognize that African Americans were here to stay.
Lincoln serves as not just a historical figure but also a form of ideal. Washington does too, of course, but his is a mythic ideal that’s less relevant today IMO, whereas Lincoln’s is extraordinarily human, pragmatic, and universal. I must choose the human over the deity.