# The president has gone full terrorist, and he's actively holding the government hostage. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306 "2019-01-06T19:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/21 "2019-01-07T03:51:44Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Can I have some cites for the Democrats being on board with a wall? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wjbil4MAfM ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/22 "2019-01-07T04:00:10Z")
**Dacien** , as **Rushgeekgirl** already pointed out, the [2006 Secure Fence Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006) was not about a wall. It was about far more efficient and reasonable border security measures, and specifically left the physical-barrier requirements up to the departments tasked with implementing it: > [@](#): > > An amendment introduced by Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, Republican of Texas, was passed, amending the law to read: “nothing in this paragraph shall require the Secretary of Homeland Security to install fencing, physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras, and sensors in a particular location along an international border of the United States, if the Secretary determines that the use or placement of such resources is not the most appropriate means to achieve and maintain operational control over the international border at such location.” Your trying to claim that it’s hypocritical for Democrats to support the 2006 Secure Fence Act and oppose Trump’s ridiculous boondoggle of a supposedly impregnable wall is like arguing that it’s hypocritical to vote for funding NASA space programs while opposing a plan to construct a giant aluminum stepladder to the moon. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/23 "2019-01-07T04:02:08Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wjbil4MAfM Those don’t support the idea that a majority of Democrats were in favor of anything like The Wall that Trump is proposing. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/24 "2019-01-07T04:28:04Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Democrats used to be on board with a wall, but because Trump wants it, they have to be strong for their base and oppose it, … For you guys wanting a cite for this, here we go: > [@Is eight hours too long to go without being offered a drink of water?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-eight-hours-too-long-to-go-without-being-offered-a-drink-of-water/826130/50): > > I’m pro-truth from a conservative angle. That’s all that needs to be said about that. It leads to a fascinating definition of “truth”, once defined by Trump sycophant Kellyanne Conway as “alternative facts”. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/25 "2019-01-07T04:28:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Those don’t support the idea that a majority of Democrats were in favor of anything like The Wall that Trump is proposing. > > Try again. You’re kidding, right? **Darien** , don’t bother trying again. I don’t mind if you never post here again at all. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/26 "2019-01-07T04:39:09Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You’re kidding, right? > > **Darien** , don’t bother trying again. I don’t mind if you never post here again at all. Who’s Darien? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/27 "2019-01-07T04:42:48Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Who’s Darien? Good one, **Dippity-doo**! ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/28 "2019-01-07T04:43:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Your trying to claim that it’s hypocritical for Democrats to support the 2006 Secure Fence Act and oppose Trump’s ridiculous boondoggle of a supposedly impregnable wall is like arguing that it’s hypocritical to vote for funding NASA space programs while opposing a plan to construct a giant aluminum stepladder to the moon. I don’t necessarily think it’s hypocritical, I just think that if we lived in a different timeline with some milquetoast GOP president asking for a few (comparatively) bucks for a wall, it wouldn’t even be a question. They’d just allow it. The fight is about standing up for their base, which means standing up to Trump. Which means a wall is “immoral” and bad and awful and all that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/29 "2019-01-07T04:44:41Z")
> [@Darien](#): > > I’m pro-truth from a conservative angle. > [@wolfpup](#): > > It leads to a fascinating definition of “truth”, once defined by Trump sycophant Kellyanne Conway as “alternative facts”. It’s the “truth” Trump pulls out of his ass. Some suckers will just lap it up without thinking. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/30 "2019-01-07T04:47:32Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > …if we lived in a different timeline with some milquetoast GOP president asking for a few (comparatively) bucks for a wall, it wouldn’t even be a question. They’d just allow it. This is purely nonsense, and you know it. But the idea that what separates Trump from reasonable standards of behavior is that he is not “milquetoast” is clever and insidious, so props for that rhetorical kung-fu. . ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/31 "2019-01-07T04:49:30Z")
> [@andros](#): > > This is purely nonsense, and you know it. > > But the idea that what separates Trump from reasonable standards of behavior is that he is not “milquetoast” is clever and insidious, so props for that rhetorical kung-fu. > . Oh, what separates Trump from reasonable standards of behavior is far from just simply not being “milquetoast”, and we all know it. Here, try this: Replace “milquetoast” with “typical” or “normal”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/32 "2019-01-07T04:54:28Z")
I’d called you out on dishonest tactics before, but not one so blatant. The Wall was a new idea from Trump. No one else has ever been stupid enough to propose a border wall for our entire Southern border (beyond some cranks who had no power). The Democrats have been against it since Trump proposed it, which means they’ve been against it as long as the concept has existed. Again, you like to bend the truth to defend Trump policies–while claiming to be a non-Trump conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/33 "2019-01-07T04:57:21Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’d called you out on dishonest tactics before, but not one so blatant. > > The Wall was a new idea from Trump. No one else has ever been stupid enough to propose a border wall for our entire Southern border (beyond some cranks who had no power). > > The Democrats have been against it since Trump proposed it, which means they’ve been against it as long as the concept has existed. > > Again, you like to bend the truth to defend Trump policies–while claiming to be a non-Trump conservative. I just happen to think Democrats wouldn’t think twice about a drop in the bucket for a border wall if it were any other normal president. That’s what I think. I think they oppose it so strongly that they’re willing to hang on to this stalemate (along with Trump) because Trump’s a boor and a heated enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/34 "2019-01-07T05:09:25Z")
Here’s another source: > **[Immigration bill summary](https://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/immigration-bill-summary-093557)** > > Here's a look at major provisions of the Senate immigration bill. **2) Completing 700 miles of pedestrian fencing along the border, which would require approximately 350 new miles of fencing.** It was introduced by none other than Chuck Shcumer, but ultimately died in Congress. This was in 2013. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/35 "2019-01-07T05:12:21Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I just happen to think Democrats wouldn’t think twice about a drop in the bucket for a border wall if it were any other normal president. That’s what I think. I think they oppose it so strongly that they’re willing to hang on to this stalemate (along with Trump) because Trump’s a boor and a heated enemy. So how come Republicans never gave him the funding in the 2 years they had control over both houses of Congress and the presidency? Dems were never for the wall. They were willing to use it as a bargaining chip for DACA, but that’s all. Just stop with the revisionist garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/36 "2019-01-07T05:15:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > So how come Republicans never gave him the funding in the 2 years they had control over both houses of Congress and the presidency? > > Dems were never for the wall. They were willing to use it as a bargaining chip for DACA, but that’s all. Just stop with the revisionist garbage. I’m not saying they were “for the wall”, I _am_ saying they were in favor of border barriers in the past on multiple occasions. I just linked one example. So here comes the latest border barrier (fence/wall, whatever you want to call it), but this time it’s coming from Trump. And Democrats cannot be seen agreeing to his request, their base would crucify them. Which is to say nothing of how they personally do not want to give him any wins. So the government gets shut down over $5 billion. Not to absolve Trump of course, digging in his heels over such a ridiculous issue. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/37 "2019-01-07T05:19:24Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > **Democrats used to be on board with a wall** , but because Trump wants it, they have to be strong for their base and oppose it, even though the amount is quite small comparatively. This is really what it’s all about. Democrats cannot, under any circumstance, give in to something they have vilified so completely. Conversely, Trump desperately needs to show his base that he is serious about the wall that he promised. > > I don’t know how either side extricates themselves from this. > [@Dacien](#): > > **I’m not saying they were “for the wall”** , I _am_ saying they were in favor of border barriers in the past on multiple occasions. I just linked one example. Examine your conflicting statements as bolded above. And since you’re so interested in “truth” from a “pro-conservative angle,” answer the question I posed about why Republicans did not give the dipshit his wall funding (that Mexico was going to pay for) when they had the chance. For 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/38 "2019-01-07T05:23:24Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Examine your conflicting statements as bolded above. > > And since you’re so interested in “truth” from a “pro-conservative angle,” answer the question I posed about why Republicans did not give the dipshit his wall funding (that Mexico was going to pay for) when they had the chance. For 2 years. Okay, “On board with border barriers”. “Democrats used to be on board with border barriers.” About your question about Republicans, I have no idea. As far as I know, request for funding or pursuit of the wall took a backseat to the hilariously botched “Repeal and Replace” Obamacare and the Tax Plan. I certainly don’t think Republicans were opposed to it, but that would be speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/39 "2019-01-07T05:23:35Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Um, no. 😕 It may be the literal definition of extortion, or of hostage-holding, but according to every [definition of terrorism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism) I know, terrorism involves violence. Try the [FBI](https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005): > [@](#): > > Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States or Puerto Rico without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives. He’s trying to force the government to capitulate to his demands; it fits. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/40 "2019-01-07T05:27:30Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Okay, “On board with border barriers”. > > “Democrats used to be on board with border barriers.” And still no answer to the question. ETA: A dumb ass answer to the question. It’s supposedly a Republican priority. It’s not for Democrats to give it to them. It was within the power of Republicans to do that, and they didn’t. Chew on that for awhile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306.md?page=3)