# The president has gone full terrorist, and he's actively holding the government hostage. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306 "2019-01-06T19:23:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/41 "2019-01-07T05:28:20Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > And still no answer to the question. I did, it was a late edit. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/42 "2019-01-07T05:38:51Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Okay, “On board with border barriers”. > > “Democrats used to be on board with border barriers.” > > About your question about Republicans, **I have no idea**. As far as I know, request for funding or pursuit of the wall took a backseat to the hilariously botched “Repeal and Replace” Obamacare and the Tax Plan. I certainly don’t think Republicans were opposed to it, but that would be speculation. I think with your statement above, you’ve accurately assessed everything you know about the stupid fucking wall situation. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/43 "2019-01-07T06:56:14Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I don’t necessarily think it’s hypocritical, I just think that if we lived in a different timeline with some milquetoast GOP president asking for a few (comparatively) bucks for a wall, it wouldn’t even be a question. They’d just allow it. The fight is about standing up for their base, which means standing up to Trump. Which means a wall is “immoral” and bad and awful and all that sort of thing. Give me DACA and you can have $5bn when you have a hard budget by independent auditors, supervised by a non-partisan board, which cannot be paid out to any construction company named TRUMP or PMURT, or any variation thereof. Or is this just about Trump getting the monument to stupidity that is his big deal on the backs of American taxpayers? Cuz that shit ain’t gonna happen, even if Republicans weren’t incompetent incontinents that can’t even manage to govern when they hold all of Congress and the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/44 "2019-01-07T06:59:29Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I certainly don’t think Republicans were opposed to it, but that would be speculation. 51 Republicans voted for a clean continuing resolution that included $0 for TEH WALL! My guess is they don’t really give a flying fuck about it, either. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/45 "2019-01-07T08:17:25Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Democrats used to be on board with a wall Cite, please. > [@](#): > > I don’t know how either side extricates themselves from this. Another week or two with the furloughed unable to pay their rent/mortgage or buy food due to lack of work and it’s not the Democrats that will need “extricating”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/46 "2019-01-07T08:21:58Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I don’t necessarily think it’s hypocritical, I just think that if we lived in a different timeline with some milquetoast GOP president asking for a few (comparatively) bucks for a wall, it wouldn’t even be a question. They’d just allow it. Right, because more, expensive, useless is security theater is just what we need… :rolleyes: With half or more of the illegal aliens coming in _legally_ through means other than than crossing the southern border on foot, then over staying their permission to stay, a wall is not only not going to fix the problem, it will divert funds from actions that _would_ reduce the problem. It’s like slapping a coat of expensive paint over a wall that really needs some spackling in about a dozen different spots. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/47 "2019-01-07T10:38:57Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Can I have some cites for the Democrats being on board with a wall? > [@Dacien](#): > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wjbil4MAfM No, no, no, no. Write “Cites are required to be _relevant_.” one hundred times, come back, and try again. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/48 "2019-01-07T10:41:56Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > Oh, what separates Trump from reasonable standards of behavior is far from just simply not being “milquetoast”, and we all know it. > > Here, try this: Replace “milquetoast” with “typical” or “normal”. So, you’re making a hypothetical assertion about what would happen if a “typical” or “normal” President proposed the construction of a giant aluminum stepladder to the moon. The problem with this premise is left as an exercise for the student. > [@Dacien](#): > > I’m not saying they were “for the wall”, I _am_ saying they were in favor of border barriers in the past on multiple occasions. Second exercise: identify the problem with conflating sending a spacecraft to the moon and building a giant aluminum stepladder to the moon. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/49 "2019-01-07T10:51:08Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > I hate Trump as much as the next totally reasonable purpose, but this is not terrorism. It’s not extortion, either. > > Congress can and should be doing its job, which is passing either a real budget or a CR. If Trump vetoes it, they have the votes (even in the Senate) to override the veto. And if he simply refuses to either sign or veto, it will become law in 10 days after landing on his desk anyway. 😕 McConnell vows not to allow vote on Appropriations or CR unless Trump has agreed to it. It seems bizarre that one Senator can have so much power, but — according to the only Doper who deigned to answer my question on this topic — he can only be overruled by 27 Republican Senators: the votes of Democratic Senators are irrelevant. (What would happen if a few dozen D Senators tried to change to the R Party so they could vote to evict this asshole?) > [@Walton\_Firm](#): > > Forgive this European for not being up to speed on all the nuances, but isn’t this government shutdown, like, a yearly tradition in American politics? Isn’t this just part of the standard [brinkmanship](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinkmanship) which characterizes the inter-party negotiations? Trump is bragging that the shutdown may last “months or even years.” This sort of bombast is certainly novel. If this shutdown continues it will become the longest in history by Saturday. Almost a million government employees are going without paychecks. That’s Million with an M. Science projects have been put on hold _with data irretrievably lost_. Under the rules, scientists _are not allowed to continue work_ even for free. Soon Millions — again note the M — of citizens dependent on government programs like SocSec or Food stamps will stop getting their funds. > [@](#): > > And if the two parties are both willing to suspend the government over these negotiations until the other side capitulates, then how do you determine which side is the hostage-taker? 😕 If a sociopath holds a gun to one of my children while demanding that I kill my other child, the sociopath and I are equally to blame? No thanks, I don’t need your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/50 "2019-01-07T11:15:00Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I don’t know how either side extricates themselves from this. The dems have exactly zero extricating to do. They’ve offered a clear way out - a clean CR, the same one that passed the senate with full consensus not two months ago. This has passed the house; there’s no reason it couldn’t pass the senate (again - the exact same bill passed the senate 100-0 very recently but couldn’t pass the house). But McConnell won’t let the senate vote on it unless Trump agrees to sign it. And Trump won’t agree to sign it if we don’t include funding for his stupid pet project - a pet project that he says is required, but also sometimes says [is currently being constructed](https://www.msn.com/en-us/kids/people-places/is-trumps-border-wall-being-built-here-are-the-facts/ar-BBQOINz), and also that [Mexico is definitely paying for it](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/trump-shutdown-wall-talking-points.html), and holy shit this dementia-addled old man has unfettered access to nuclear weapons god help us all. This is a republican shutdown. It started when republicans controlled every branch of government, and it has only gotten easy for republicans to extricate themselves from once the democrats took over the house of representatives - but McConnell won’t let it happen because he doesn’t want to force a confrontation with Trump. Trump personally claimed responsibility for it on live TV in front of Pelosi and Shumer! Sometimes it’s hard to apportion blame when disagreements lead to a shutdown or a debt ceiling fight. Usually, the side offering a clean CR is in the right, because they’re making it clear they’re willing to argue for their position without holding the government’s basic functionality hostage in the process. In this case, there is simply no argument to be had. Trump shut down the government to get his wall. Trump is bragging about shutting down the government to get his wall. And McConnell and his cronies are enabling him. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/51 "2019-01-07T11:49:41Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wjbil4MAfM That was for improved border security, including fencing. That’s not a wall. You’ve fallen victim to the both sides do it durp that lead to the election of Trump in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/52 "2019-01-07T13:19:39Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > I don’t necessarily think it’s hypocritical, I just think that if we lived in a different timeline with some milquetoast GOP president asking for a few (comparatively) bucks for a wall, it wouldn’t even be a question. They’d just allow it. The fight is about standing up for their base, which means standing up to Trump. Which means a wall is “immoral” and bad and awful and all that sort of thing. Fuck Trump, and fuck his damn “base”. I for one am sick and tired of this country having to pander to those toothless inbred stupid nasty subsidy sucking motherfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/53 "2019-01-07T13:28:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The dems have exactly zero extricating to do. They’ve offered a clear way out - a clean CR, the same one that passed the senate with full consensus not two months ago. This has passed the house; there’s no reason it couldn’t pass the senate (again - the exact same bill passed the senate 100-0 very recently but couldn’t pass the house). But McConnell won’t let the senate vote on it unless Trump agrees to sign it. And Trump won’t agree to sign it if we don’t include funding for his stupid pet project - a pet project that he says is required, but also sometimes says [is currently being constructed](https://www.msn.com/en-us/kids/people-places/is-trumps-border-wall-being-built-here-are-the-facts/ar-BBQOINz), and also that [Mexico is definitely paying for it](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/trump-shutdown-wall-talking-points.html), and holy shit this dementia-addled old man has unfettered access to nuclear weapons god help us all. > > This is a republican shutdown. It started when republicans controlled every branch of government, and it has only gotten easy for republicans to extricate themselves from once the democrats took over the house of representatives - but McConnell won’t let it happen because he doesn’t want to force a confrontation with Trump. Trump personally claimed responsibility for it on live TV in front of Pelosi and Shumer! > > Sometimes it’s hard to apportion blame when disagreements lead to a shutdown or a debt ceiling fight. Usually, the side offering a clean CR is in the right, because they’re making it clear they’re willing to argue for their position without holding the government’s basic functionality hostage in the process. In this case, there is simply no argument to be had. Trump shut down the government to get his wall. Trump is bragging about shutting down the government to get his wall. And McConnell and his cronies are enabling him. This needs repeating. It is a TRUMP shut down. For a wall only he wants at this point (him and the more stupid members of his racist fascist base). Aided and abetted by that other traitor, McConnell. And, now the fat orange fuck is calling it a “strike” too. No, it is a shut down, a lock out. Enough with the lies and bullshit. You want real national security? Get Putin’s stooge out of Washington and into prison. Lock up him, Nunez, McConnell, Gowdy, Rand Paul, Rohrbacher, Issa, Graham, Stone, Manafort, Cohen, etc etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/54 "2019-01-09T03:32:17Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake. Trump is many things, but a terrorist? No. He’s acting like a toddler holding his breath until he gets what he wants. I think Trump knows damned well that the wall is a dumbass idea. But most likely he has some kind of financial interest in it – I’ll bet you any amount of money that’s why he’s so obsessed. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/55 "2019-01-09T05:50:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think Trump knows damned well that the wall is a dumbass idea. But most likely he has some kind of financial interest in it – I’ll bet you any amount of money that’s why he’s so obsessed. I think it is two things: pride and saving face. As for pride, it has been suggested (on the SDMB, I think, but I cannot remember by whom) that Mr. Trump wants a lasting project that he can put his name on. A wall fits the bill: “The Donald J. Trump Border Wall” would be solid, and with proper maintenance, will last for years. It’s not so easy to put your name on an infrastructure project (“The Donald J. Trump Interstate 15 Pothole Project”). Saving face also seems to be important to Mr. Trump. To him, every deal has a winner and a loser, and if he is not the winner, he has to save face somehow. So he likely feels that he made a deal with the American people, “to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it.” Now that it has sunk in that Mexico is not going to pay for it in any way (including via USMCA), he is desperately trying to save face by blaming Democrats for not giving him money for the wall, and keeping American government employees off the job “Because it’s the fault of the Democrats that we had to take this position.” Mr. Trump may well have a financial interest in the construction of a wall. But I think pride and saving face likely have a bigger role than financial gain in his quest for a wall. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/56 "2019-01-09T05:54:30Z")
Why wasn’t Trump’s wall funded in the last 2 years? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/57 "2019-01-09T07:54:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You’re kidding, right? > > **Darien** , don’t bother trying again. I don’t mind if you never post here again at all. :smack: D’Oh! Goddamned autocorrect. To whoever it was that live-quoted **Dacien** and led to my attention being called to this error, I offer my thanks. And a respectful request that you STOP live-quoting that idiot. The 'Ignore" list is _supposed_ to make the Doper experience BETTER; please don’t fuck it up for me. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/58 "2019-01-09T08:14:39Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I think it is two things: pride and saving face. > > As for pride, it has been suggested (on the SDMB, I think, but I cannot remember by whom) that Mr. Trump wants a lasting project that he can put his name on. A wall fits the bill: “The Donald J. Trump Border Wall” would be solid, and with proper maintenance, will last for years. It’s not so easy to put your name on an infrastructure project (“The Donald J. Trump Interstate 15 Pothole Project”). I’d be pleased as Punch to have the [United States Penitentiary, ADX Florence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence) rebranded as the Donald J Trump Supermax. With him as the inaugural resident of the Presidential [del]Suite[/del] I mean cell. I’d even support a small appropriation to affix a large “T” over the front gate. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/59 "2019-01-09T11:33:23Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > As for pride, it has been suggested (on the SDMB, I think, but I cannot remember by whom) that Mr. Trump wants a lasting project that he can put his name on. A wall fits the bill: “The Donald J. Trump Border Wall” would be solid, and with proper maintenance, will last for years. It’s not so easy to put your name on an infrastructure project (“The Donald J. Trump Interstate 15 Pothole Project”). And this is also why the opposition is so severe. The border fence idea was never hugely popular, but it’s absolutely impossible for Democrats to consider it (at least without huge concessions) now that its main purpose is to be a monument to the worst views of the reactionary movement. Like, I used to think it was a dumb idea, but now it ranks right next to asking for $5 billion to put up statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306/60 "2019-01-10T18:10:29Z")
At first I thought this thread title was hyperbole. However, if the Republicans are really willing to allow the shutdown to cause the cessation of food inspections, it is pretty plainly predictable that sooner or later, people will get sick and die. At that point (and please show me the error if this reasoning is wrong) the GOP will be demonstrating that it is willing to kill hostages to get their dipshit wall. Isn’t there criminal liability for this at some point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-has-gone-full-terrorist-and-hes-actively-holding-the-government-hostage/827306.md?page=4)