# The President of the United States and the Honorable Bill Clinton **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204 "2007-10-27T05:49:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/41 "2007-10-29T13:51:23Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Perhaps it is time to establish a Department to Assist Unimportant People With Bureaucratic Brushoffs. [/QUOTE] Your experience indicates that they already have several. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/42 "2007-10-29T14:01:47Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Your experience indicates that they already have several. [/QUOTE] I think I must have tugged at Janet’s heartstrings when she asked me who I was. I said, “I’m just nobody. A citizen.” Bless her heart, she said, “A citizen isn’t nobody. That’s who we’re here to serve. What’s your question? I’ll get you an answer.” Honest to God, it sounds hokey as hell, but that’s what transpired, and I’m just on Cloud Nine because of it. Nice to know there do exist good and caring servants of the people after all. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/43 "2007-10-29T14:13:16Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] **Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States and the Honorable Bill Clinton** [/QUOTE] Whoo-hoo! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/44 "2007-10-29T14:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] Whoo-hoo! [/QUOTE] Yo, that’s right! You nailed it to the tee. Well done, sir! […salute…] ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/45 "2007-10-29T14:37:19Z")
Thread retitled at request of OP. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/46 "2007-10-29T15:24:12Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] I think the press does a terrible job of referring to people by their formal titles. [/quote] Maybe I’m misreading you, but this seems to assume that the press has some obligation or responsibility to use “formal” titles, which they absolutely don’t and shouldn’t. In fact, I think the press uses “formal” titles far too often, as in “John Doe, president and CEO of Big Corp.” or “Jane Doe, executive vice president and general counsel of Big Corp.” President _and_ CEO? Executive vice president _and_ general counsel? This is all just corporate bullshit and contains no useful information for the reader. > [@](#): > > And if you went up to shake his hand, it would be appropriate to say, “Nice to meet you, Mr. Clinton.” I’m with you on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/47 "2007-10-29T16:39:00Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] In fact, I think the press uses “formal” titles far too often, as in “John Doe, president and CEO of Big Corp.” or “Jane Doe, executive vice president and general counsel of Big Corp.” President _and_ CEO? Executive vice president _and_ general counsel? This is all just corporate bullshit and contains no useful information for the reader. [/QUOTE] Perhaps it doesn’t give useful information to you, but to anyone in the business world this is hugely important information. It makes a vast different whether one person holds both the titles of CEO and president. e.g., or not. I’d fire any reporter who didn’t get and put into the story information this important and this basic. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/48 "2007-10-29T16:50:13Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] the nicest lady in the whole world (Janet) took down my question, walked over to some office or another, and called me back with the answer. The announcement will be: **Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States and the Honorable Bill Clinton** 🙂 [/QUOTE] Could she (Janet) be convinced to throw her hat into the ring? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/49 "2007-10-29T17:08:38Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The announcement will be: **Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States and the Honorable Bill Clinton** 🙂 [/QUOTE] Now, is Bill himself the one that chooses to go by Bill instead of William for a formal announcement like that? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/50 "2007-10-29T17:20:05Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Maybe I’m misreading you, but this seems to assume that the press has some obligation or responsibility to use “formal” titles, which they absolutely don’t and shouldn’t. In fact, I think the press uses “formal” titles far too often, as in “John Doe, president and CEO of Big Corp.” or “Jane Doe, executive vice president and general counsel of Big Corp.” President _and_ CEO? Executive vice president _and_ general counsel? This is all just corporate bullshit and contains no useful information for the reader. [/QUOTE] Those aren’t formal titles. No press article I’ve ever seen would say, “John Doe, president of Big Corp, went to dinner last night. President Doe ordered the veal.” That’s wrong. They’d say, “John Doe, president of Big Corp, went to dinner last night. Mr. Doe ordered the veal.” Which is just fine by me. I’m referring to things like news stories calling State Senator Joe Blow, “Senator Blow.” He’s formally called Mr. Blow. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/51 "2007-10-29T17:22:19Z")
His choice. Lately he has been formalizing his name a lot more than he used to. But he used to sign bills with “Bill Clinton” much as President Carter used to sign “Jimmy Carter”. I think it’s either a Democratic or southern affectation, but I’ve always found it strange. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/52 "2007-10-29T17:27:18Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Perhaps it doesn’t give useful information to you, but to anyone in the business world this is hugely important information. It makes a vast different whether one person holds both the titles of CEO and president. e.g., or not. I’d fire any reporter who didn’t get and put into the story information this important and this basic. [/QUOTE] If you’re editing for a specialty publication and the story somehow implicates the distinction between “president” and “CEO,” then fine. In general news and business stories, I just can’t see how it would be relevant. In fact, in the types of stories I write, in which such corporate officers are commenting on legislation or the development of legal doctrine, my preference is to drop the specific office altogether and go with “John Doe of Big Corp.” and, in fact, I think for most general audience news stories it’s rare that anything more specific is needed. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/53 "2007-10-29T17:30:49Z")
I’ve always heard that the proper way to address a former president would be by their highest position not in the US executive branch. Therefore I would say President and Governor Clinton, Governor GWB, Ambassador GHWB, and Governor Carter. Perhaps after she left office the Clintons would be Governor and Senator Clintons, First Parents to President Chelsea Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/54 "2007-10-29T17:51:43Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] If you’re editing for a specialty publication and the story somehow implicates the distinction between “president” and “CEO,” then fine. In general news and business stories, I just can’t see how it would be relevant. In fact, in the types of stories I write, in which such corporate officers are commenting on legislation or the development of legal doctrine, my preference is to drop the specific office altogether and go with “John Doe of Big Corp.” and, in fact, I think for most general audience news stories it’s rare that anything more specific is needed. [/QUOTE] And, I might add, each corporation is free to individually name and define its corporate executive structure, so I dispute that “president and CEO” has some kind of universally applicable connotation. I’m willing to be educated on that point, however. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/55 "2007-10-29T18:12:32Z")
Thanks, Gfactor. > [@vetbridge](#): > > Could she (Janet) be convinced to throw her hat into the ring? 😉 I wish. We need people like her. > [@Asimovian](#): > > Now, is Bill himself the one that chooses to go by Bill instead of William for a formal announcement like that? I’m sure he can go by any name he chooses, but he has chosen Bill. Given his Southern background, I’d reckon he doesn’t want to put on any airs. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/56 "2007-10-29T22:43:56Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I’ve always heard that the proper way to address a former president would be by their highest position not in the US executive branch. [/quote] I haven’t noticed this happening in the last fifteen years. > [@](#): > > Therefore I would say President and Governor Clinton, Governor GWB, Ambassador GHWB, and Governor Carter. Perhaps after she left office the Clintons would be Governor and Senator Clintons, First Parents to President Chelsea Clinton. :rolleyes: First Parents? Is that like Queen Dowager? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/57 "2007-10-29T23:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] He’s formally called Mr. Blow. [/QUOTE] Hey, come on, now. Don’t you think Mr. Bush has enough derogatory nicknames as it is? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/58 "2007-10-30T01:46:17Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] If you’re editing for a specialty publication and the story somehow implicates the distinction between “president” and “CEO,” then fine. In general news and business stories, I just can’t see how it would be relevant. In fact, in the types of stories I write, in which such corporate officers are commenting on legislation or the development of legal doctrine, my preference is to drop the specific office altogether and go with “John Doe of Big Corp.” and, in fact, I think for most general audience news stories it’s rare that anything more specific is needed. [/QUOTE] A writer always writes in the proper format for the intended audience. Without knowing what audience you write for I can’t comment. However, in general I could go with John Doe of Big Corp only if the context made clear what the status of the person was. Otherwise, John Doe could be the CEO, some random spokesperson, the janitor, or a disgruntled agitator. However, if a title is used it has to be the exact proper title, not some variant that vaguely sounds good to you, or worse, something that you assume to be adequate because of your total ignorance of (or arrogance toward) the world you’re writing about. This applies to every writer everywhere. And as somebody who used to work for government, I’m astonished that anybody here thought that any person working with the public to answer questions would be anything less than friendly and helpful. I’m sure that of the hundreds of thousands of workers in government, you could find an exception, but really. What did anybody expect to happen? The vast, overwhelming percentage of people who work for government do so because they sincerely want to help people by doing good. You can’t judge the people that answer phones by the elected officials that appear in the news. P.S. Mr. Moto, what do you think of Willard Mitt Romney? Or, conversely, Freddie Dalton Thompson? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/59 "2007-10-30T03:49:39Z")
**Madame President and her baby daddy.** Or maybe we should just let Bill become a Senator from New York the moment that Hillary takes office so that we could just say; “President and Senator Clinton” like we do now. Switching into serious mode: I thought it was correct to call former presidents “Mr. President” and “President Carter” and so forth. I think I’ve heard a group (a gaggle?, a murder?) of presidents referred to as, “Presidents Bush, Carter and Clinton,” when they were together at an event. Former presidents are also just ‘presidents’, even if they are not THE president. And they are ‘President’ if you are using it as a title and/or to precede their name. A teacher would say: “name all the presidents, Suzy.” Rather than, “name all the former presidents and the current one, Suzy.” I could be sooooooooo wrong about this, but it feels right to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2007, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204/60 "2007-10-30T04:08:43Z")
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that one met President Carter during a recent trip to Georgia or whatever. But there does exist protocol on what people of various accomplishments should be called in formal situations: those rules say that Jimmy Carter is now formally introduced at stuffy occasions, as the Honorable Jimmy Carter, and he is politely and correctly spoken to as Mr. Carter. So if you want to refer to former presidents as President So and so, or former governors as Governor Whatsit, go for it. It just means that the hoi palloi aren’t going to call and ask you for advice on the difference between formal and semiformal attire for an evening function. (Hint: one of them involves a black tie. And it’s probably not the one you’re thinking of.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-of-the-united-states-and-the-honorable-bill-clinton/424204.md?page=4)