# "The President won't let policy be influenced by public opinion" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405 "2007-01-10T14:25:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/41 "2007-01-11T08:35:57Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] The government of the people, by the people and for the people has perished from the earth. [/QUOTE] It never existed on this Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/42 "2007-01-11T08:45:21Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] I understand it’s also known as a “mandate”. [/QUOTE] Going on memory, one of the more intelligent former posters on the SDMB, **Liberal** I think, accurately described the typical democracy or republic as being, in reality a duo-polistic elective dictatorship. I concur with that. Once you’ve cast your vote every now and then, you don’t really have any power or influence on politicians. That’s why they can safely ignore you. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/43 "2007-01-11T10:04:02Z")
Quotes as read in the New York Times: “And as to whether or not I make decisions based upon polls, I don’t. I just don’t make decisions that way.”—President Bush, April 13 “One adviser said the White House had examined polling and focus group studies in determining that it would be a mistake for Mr. Bush to appear to [admit mistakes].”, April 15 I rest my case. Apparently, the polling on admitting mistakes changed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/44 "2007-01-11T12:59:27Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] IIRC public opinion was that an invasion should only be done with UN approval and international support. Of course that changed the moment we invaded and people wanted to support the troops. [/QUOTE] Yes, and that’s what is so confusing about why so many Congressmen were willing to give Bush the authority to go to war in the first place. The received wisdom is that it was the politically smart thing to do, and yet right before they voted to do so (Oct 7, 2002): > [@](#): > > [War With Iraq: Americans In No Hurry](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/06/opinion/polls/main524496.shtml) > > U.S. SHOULD: > > Take military action soon 30% > Give U.N. weapons inspectors time 63% > > \ > > Asked whether Iraq presents such a clear danger that the U.S. needs to act now, even without allied backing, or whether the U.S. needs to wait for such backing, Americans expressed the desire to wait. > U.S. SHOULD: > > Act now 29% > Wait for allies 65% The other poll numbers are even more telling (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > And before giving that approval, Congress should ask more questions, according to most Americans. 51% say Congress has not asked enough… > > \ > > Moreover, Americans are unsure about the payoff from a conflict with Iraq: most do not think that action against Iraq would reduce the threat of terrorism against the U.S. If anything, war might increase that threat - half say this, a figure up slightly from September. Only 16% say war would reduce the threat [of terrorism] to the U.S. > > U.S. ATTACK ON IRAQ AND TERROR THREAT > > Will increase threat 50% > Will make no difference 32% > Will decrease threat 16% > > \ > > Despite his statements over the weekend about the pressing need to disarm Saddam Hussein, Americans believe Bush is more interested in removing Saddam Hussein than in removing the weapons of mass destruction from Iraq… > > BUSH: MORE INTERESTED IN REMOVING HUSSEIN OR WEAPONS? > Removing Hussein 53% > Removing weapons of mass destruction 29% So, let’s forget about Bush for a moment. We know he was itching for this war. The question is, why did our elected representatives give him the approval to do so? What, exactly, were they afraid of? It couldn’t have been public opinion… I know Bush bears the primary responsibility for this war-- he led us into it. But he couldn’t have done so if our representatives in Congress had listened to us. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/45 "2007-01-11T13:22:18Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] People shouldn’t choose a President because they think he’s a regular guy who they’d be comfortable having a beer with. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say that. The thought that I should be content should a President continue a war, stop medical research or for example try and remove a woman’s right to make decisions about her own body is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/46 "2007-01-11T13:54:08Z")
> [@GWB](#): > > But victory in Iraq will bring something new in the Arab world — a functioning democracy that polices its territory, upholds the rule of law, respects fundamental human liberties, and answers to its people. Bush is taking it over there so it won’t pester him over here. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/47 "2007-01-11T14:00:22Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] I understand it’s also known as a “mandate”. [/QUOTE] No, Bush’s ‘man date’ would be [Jeff Gannon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/48 "2007-01-11T14:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] We know he was itching for this war. The question is, why did our elected representatives give him the approval to do so? [/QUOTE] My take on it at the time was that our representatives voted to give the President the power to invade Iraq _if all else failed_. Only the President decided to use war as a first choice instead of a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/49 "2007-01-11T14:42:24Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] My take on it at the time was that our representatives voted to give the President the power to invade Iraq _if all else failed_. Only the President decided to use war as a first choice instead of a last resort. [/QUOTE] My take is that we all knew he was going to invade if he was given the authorization to do so. Yeah, there was a lot a rhetoric from Bush that it would only be a last resort, but we knew we were going to war-- let’s not fool oursleves about that. In the poll I cited, less than 1/3 of Americans thought this was about WMDs and well over half thought it was about toppling Saddam Hussein. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/50 "2007-01-11T15:37:09Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Any politician who defies public opinion had better be damned sure he’s right or he’ll face some heavy consequences. [/QUOTE] You can face consequences for being right, too, if people don’t come around to your side fast enough for it to help you in the next election. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/51 "2007-01-11T15:49:28Z")
To expand on **Johnny L.A.**'s point, it was not at all clear whether or not Saddam would have let the inspectors back into Iraq if the resolution had not passed. So, the question that the representatives faced was actually more difficult than you make it out to be. I.e., by voting against the resolution, they would have to think that Iraq was so little of a risk that they didn’t really think it was that important to get inspectors in at all. (Or, they could think other things, like the resolution wouldn’t significantly increase the likelihood he would let inspectors in.) This is not to let the reps and Senators totally off the hook here but just to point out that the vote was more complicated than you ( **John Mace** ) seem to make it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/52 "2007-01-11T15:49:30Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Will the Iraqi leaders listen to the wisdom of the people? bi-partisan committees? generals? experts and scholars? Or will they listen to loyal old friends? [/QUOTE] Yes, that was pretty funny: We listened to input from Congress who contributed a lot of thought on this. But then we decided to disregard it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/53 "2007-01-11T16:50:16Z")
[QUOTE=jshore] To expand on **Johnny L.A.**'s point, it was not at all clear whether or not Saddam would have let the inspectors back into Iraq if the resolution had not passed. So, the question that the representatives faced was actually more difficult than you make it out to be. I.e., by voting against the resolution, they would have to think that Iraq was so little of a risk that they didn’t really think it was that important to get inspectors in at all. (Or, they could think other things, like the resolution wouldn’t significantly increase the likelihood he would let inspectors in.) This is not to let the reps and Senators totally off the hook here but just to point out that the vote was more complicated than you ( **John Mace** ) seem to make it out to be. [/QUOTE] Yes, getting the inspectors in was the pretex for the AUMF, but I think the poll numbers I cited show that most Americans knew it was all about the war. If those didn’t convince you, maybe these will (from the same cite): > [@](#): > > Americans continue to believe that war is inevitable… > > WILL U.S. END UP FIGHTING IN IRAQ? > > Yes 70% > No 24% The AUMF could have been crafted to allow the troops into the region but give Congress the ultimate say as to whether or not we would invade. Leaving it up to the sole discretion of Bush pretty much locked war in as a strategy. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/54 "2007-01-11T16:54:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] My take is that we all knew he was going to invade if he was given the authorization to do so. Yeah, there was a lot a rhetoric from Bush that it would only be a last resort, but we knew we were going to war-- let’s not fool oursleves about that. [/quote] Wonder if there’s a poll on that, from back then. My recollection was that the people on either end of the political spectrum mostly believed we were going to war, and those in the middle - certainly the pundits in the middle - mostly took Bush at his word, and said us dirty hippies on the left had no reason to distrust our Fearless Leader. > [@](#): > > In the poll I cited, less than 1/3 of Americans thought this was about WMDs and well over half thought it was about toppling Saddam Hussein. Nitpick: that’s ‘about half,’ (53% = within MOE of 50%) not ‘well over half.’ No biggie, though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/55 "2007-01-11T16:55:42Z")
> [@](#): > > You can face consequences for being right, too, if people don’t come around to your side fast enough for it to help you in the next election. True in some cases. But at least if you made the right decision you can figure people will come around eventually. Look at Ford - he pardoned Nixon and was widely condemned and it probably cost him the 1976 election. But by the time he died, most people agreed he had made the right decision. The same happened with Bush Sr in 1991 with his decision not to occupy Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/56 "2007-01-11T16:59:29Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Wonder if there’s a poll on that, from back then. My recollection was that the people on either end of the political spectrum mostly believed we were going to war, and those in the middle - certainly the pundits in the middle - mostly took Bush at his word, and said us dirty hippies on the left had no reason to distrust our Fearless Leader. [/quote] My post immediately before yours addresses this. The question wasn’t precisely that, but I think it was close enough. > [@](#): > > Nitpick: that’s ‘about half,’ (53% = within MOE of 50%) not ‘well over half.’ No biggie, though. My bad. I should have just said “over half”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/57 "2007-01-11T17:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] True in some cases. But at least if you made the right decision you can figure people will come around eventually. Look at Ford - he pardoned Nixon and was widely condemned and it probably cost him the 1976 election. But by the time he died, most people agreed he had made the right decision. The same happened with Bush Sr in 1991 with his decision not to occupy Iraq. [/QUOTE] I was thinking of Ford when I wrote that. He’s been vindicated by popular opinion, but as far as the democratic process goes, it didn’t do him any good. He lost in 1976 because of the same pardon that people are now praising. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/58 "2007-01-11T18:12:52Z")
> [@](#): > > People shouldn’t choose a President because they think he’s a regular guy who they’d be comfortable having a beer with. They should pick somebody who they think is the smartest and wisest and capable of making the best decisions - a person who is decidedly not average. Actually, for all practical purposes, the regular voters are stuck with picking a candidate from a small selection of nominees presented to us by the national level decision makers in the political parties. I am sure that somewhere in the vast rolls of the Democratic Party membership, there may have been someone wiser than Al Gore, John Kerry. (The same applies to the Republicans vis-a-vis G. Bush, etc.) But those wiser folks either didn’t want the job, or they could not come to agreeable terms with the national party leadership. Votes for candidates from parties other than the two main ones seem like “protest/throw away” votes. These candidates are selected via some process that remains mostly unknown to the public at large. (Even in the Primary elections, the Dem./Rep. parties present a short list of typically two or three candidates.) For all it’s mystifying (to me) clumsiness, sometimes we get lucky, and a good person gets the job. Sometimes not. It is frustrating, but I don’t wanna give up on the whole thing yet. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/59 "2007-01-11T18:13:59Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] My post immediately before yours addresses this. The question wasn’t precisely that, but I think it was close enough. [/QUOTE] I’d beg to differ. For instance, if people believed we’d ultimately wind up in war because they believed Saddam had WMDs, he wasn’t going to give them up, and so of course he wasn’t going to cooperate, then that’s quite different from Bush taking us to war, no matter what Saddam did, because he’d already paid a month’s rent on the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405/60 "2007-01-11T18:39:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, for all practical purposes, the regular voters are stuck with picking a candidate from a small selection of nominees presented to us by the national level decision makers in the political parties. But as long as you’ve got two valid choices, then the two sides have to present a candidate they think the voters will elect. If for example, the voters decided that height was the most important consideration in choosing a President, you wouldn’t see Danny DeVito getting a nomination from either party. You’d see Shaq O’Neill running against Yao Ming. By the same token, if the voters really wanted an intelligent candidate then both parties would present intelligent nominees. But the voters don’t really want a smart President - they’ll say they do but when election day comes around they’ll vote for the “regular joe” instead of the “egghead”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-president-wont-let-policy-be-influenced-by-public-opinion/387405.md?page=4)