# The Presidential Race **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2008, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083 "2008-05-21T11:12:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/21 "2008-05-21T23:55:33Z")
Well, she’s now comparing her fight to seat the FLA/MI delegations to [the abolition of slavery and the winning of blacks’ and women’s right to vote](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Clinton_compares_the_Florida_and_Michigan_fight_to_civil_rights_movement.html), so who knows how far she’ll go? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/22 "2008-05-22T00:00:27Z")
[QUOTE=Flipshod] But the word is that SHE can’t push it out there without the party crumbling, but she’s waiting for the other side to figure it out. I know–it’s my worrying nature to think that if things seem to be going well politically, there must be a catch. Perhaps my days as a Clinton (the first one) supporter are haunting me. 😉 [/QUOTE] Her only slim hope is to convince the superdelegates of this, which is not going to happen, especially now that Obama has a majority of the pledged ones. I read that Obama’s campaign claims that they only need 25 more superdelegates, and the story said that the AP confirmed this with an independent calculation. My Congressman, Pete Stark, just came out for him though Hillary won our district. I think letting things go until the last primary is beneficial to everyone, but Hillary’s stopping of the anti-Obama attacks shows that she can count. I think it also shows that she’ll get behind him. Without a knife. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/23 "2008-05-22T00:07:18Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I think President Bush will help the dems win this year, because his rating are so low, and people are so fed up with his policies and behavior that the thought of another 4 years of his bullshit even from a man like McCain, is simply not acceptable to more people in the country than not. [/QUOTE] In fact he is going to actively help the Dems win. McCain is still way behind Obama in fund raising, and has not gotten together a mass of on-line supporters like Obama has. Most of us can give more money, and will. So, he is going to get money from the RNC, and Bush, who is very good at fund raising, is going to help - which is going to tie them together more. Another problem he has is that he has now pissed off the lobbyists. Obama stopped taking money directly from lobbyists a long time ago, but McCain has just started, and his firing them has not sat well. I read an article on this this morning which had the lobbyist feeling very aggrieved - I thought I was reading something from Stephen Colbert about Know a Lobbyist. That, and the perception that the Repubs are going to get clobbered, is really drying up the K street money for him. So, more reliance on the guys who can bring in the money, Bush and Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/24 "2008-05-22T00:30:39Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] In fact he is going to actively help the Dems win. McCain is still way behind Obama in fund raising, and has not gotten together a mass of on-line supporters like Obama has. Most of us can give more money, and will. So, he is going to get money from the RNC, and Bush, who is very good at fund raising, is going to help - which is going to tie them together more. Another problem he has is that he has now pissed off the lobbyists. Obama stopped taking money directly from lobbyists a long time ago, but McCain has just started, and his firing them has not sat well. I read an article on this this morning which had the lobbyist feeling very aggrieved - I thought I was reading something from Stephen Colbert about Know a Lobbyist. That, and the perception that the Repubs are going to get clobbered, is really drying up the K street money for him. So, more reliance on the guys who can bring in the money, Bush and Cheney. [/QUOTE] I’m going to say when all is said and told that during the length of his campaign Obama raises 500 Million Dollars. Won’t surprise me in the least. Now he’s got to translate that into a solid Presidency - that’s what I’ll be looking for.It won’t surprise me in the least to see him in that eliptical office. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/25 "2008-05-22T01:28:32Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [New Reuters/Zogby poll shows Obama with an 8-point national lead over McCain.](http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKN2034087120080521) [/QUOTE] Okay so explain to me what the [Votemaster](http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May21.html) is doing wrong. Electoral math is what counts, right? ```auto Obama (242) McCain (285) Tied (11) Clinton (284) McCain (237) Tied (17) ``` ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/26 "2008-05-22T01:59:09Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] Okay so explain to me what the [Votemaster](http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May21.html) is doing wrong. Electoral math is what counts, right? [/QUOTE] What they are doing wrong is using whatever poll is most recent for a particular state even if the data is two or three months old and/or the pollster is unreliable. The cited national poll reflects recent movements in opinions. Now. The Votemaster data is in many cases from back in Feburary and were very “barely” back then. A lot, both positive and negative, has happened to alter opinions in the last three months. Predicting the future using current data is perilous, predicting it using data long past its expiration date is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/27 "2008-05-22T16:37:53Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Well, she’s now comparing her fight to seat the FLA/MI delegations to [the abolition of slavery and the winning of blacks’ and women’s right to vote](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Clinton_compares_the_Florida_and_Michigan_fight_to_civil_rights_movement.html), so who knows how far she’ll go? [/QUOTE] [Zimbabwe](http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/05/21/politics/fromtheroad/entry4116567.shtml). > [@](#): > > SUNRISE, FLA. – Desperate to get attention for her cause to seat Florida and Michigan delegates, Hillary Clinton compared the plight of Zimbabweans in their recent fraudulent election to the uncounted votes of Michigan and Florida voters… ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/28 "2008-05-22T16:40:19Z")
Maybe Clinton won’t drop out of the race because Obama’s supporters still love talking about her? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/29 "2008-05-22T16:55:55Z")
[McCain invites Bobby Jindal, Charlie Crist and Mitt Romney to his ranch for VP discussions.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-mccain22-2008may22,0,4355425.story) [Meanwhile, Obama conducts secret search with Jim Johnson leading the process.](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/obama-begins-search-for-vice-president/) No Olympia Snowe at the ranch, McCain? And that search is not so secret, is it Obama? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/30 "2008-05-22T17:10:14Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] [McCain invites Bobby Jindal, Charlie Crist and Mitt Romney to his ranch for VP discussions.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-mccain22-2008may22,0,4355425.story) [Meanwhile, Obama conducts secret search with Jim Johnson leading the process.](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/obama-begins-search-for-vice-president/) No Olympia Snowe at the ranch, McCain? And that search is not so secret, is it Obama? [/QUOTE] For some reason I always think that when they mention, “_democratic officials said on condition of anonymity_” that they are talking about campaign interns found at a bar late at night…I know it’s weird. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/31 "2008-05-22T17:19:40Z")
Obama does not want to seem presumptuous but he’s a smart man and knows a careful search will take time, so he wished to keep his VP search a secret. But he’s got a leak somewhere. Unless he wants people to know he’s searching for a VP but doesn’t want to make an official announcement, that is. As for McCain’s weekend meetings. . . well, my opinion of most Republicans is not so good. I’m hoping someone a bit more objective than I can comment on them. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/32 "2008-05-22T17:20:08Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] [McCain invites Bobby Jindal, Charlie Crist and Mitt Romney to his ranch for VP discussions.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-mccain22-2008may22,0,4355425.story) [/QUOTE] I assume their thinking with Jindal is that having a man of color will offset what’s special about Barack. I could see this backfiring in their faces. For people to whom this matters, it levels the playing field. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/33 "2008-05-22T17:22:14Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Maybe Clinton won’t drop out of the race because Obama’s supporters still love talking about her? [/QUOTE] Or maybe people keep talking about her because she won’t drop out of the race. Although I hope comments on Clinton in this thread will be more geared toward November’s race than the current Democratic nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/34 "2008-05-22T18:10:24Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] Okay so explain to me what the [Votemaster](http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May21.html) is doing wrong. Electoral math is what counts, right? [/QUOTE] A better site is [FiveThirtyEight.com](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/). They use techniques like poll weighing, regression, and probability estimates to come up with their electoral map. It’s interesting that they, too, are showing Clinton right now looking better than Obama in the GE against McCain. But I don’t think it means too much. My guess is that Obama supporters feel that he has clinched the nomination and are magnanimous towards Clinton in a Clinton-McCain matchup, while Clinton supporters haven’t coalesced around Obama yet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/35 "2008-05-22T19:06:23Z")
I don’t so much expect them to coalesce around Obama as I expect them to coalesce against McCain, and so far he has done little to disappoint. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/36 "2008-05-22T19:34:45Z")
[QUOTE=Airblairxxx] It’s interesting that they, too, are showing Clinton right now looking better than Obama in the GE against McCain. But I don’t think it means too much. My guess is that Obama supporters feel that he has clinched the nomination and are magnanimous towards Clinton in a Clinton-McCain matchup, while Clinton supporters haven’t coalesced around Obama yet. [/QUOTE] I think another factor is that, excepting the Bosnian-sniper bit, there’s been little in the way of anti-Hillary attacks in the past three months or so, ever since the GOP realized that Hillary wasn’t going to be the nominee. So a lot of people are going to unconsciously see her in a better light, right now. IMHO, if she had had a clear lead since February, Obama would be polling better against McCain, because they’d be tearing her down, and not him. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/37 "2008-05-22T19:50:26Z")
He was polling better against McCain yesterday…today he’s not. The wind will shift 100 more times in the next 100 days. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/38 "2008-05-22T19:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Well, she’s now comparing her fight to seat the FLA/MI delegations to [the abolition of slavery and the winning of blacks’ and women’s right to vote](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Clinton_compares_the_Florida_and_Michigan_fight_to_civil_rights_movement.html), so who knows how far she’ll go? [/QUOTE] This along with the Zimbabwe comment mentioned after this shows she has nothing big up her sleeve. If she did, she wouldn’t be bothering with these classless characterizations, especially since they could backfire on her if that’s all she has. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/39 "2008-05-23T17:47:10Z")
[McCain fires Iraq volley at Obama](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/21/1050316.aspx) > [@](#): > > Senator Obama has consistently offered his judgment on Iraq, and he has been consistently wrong. He said that General Petraeus’ new strategy would not reduce sectarian violence, but would worsen it. He was wrong. He said the dynamics in Iraq would not change as a result of the ‘surge.’ He was wrong. One year ago, he voted to cut off all funds for our forces fighting extremists in Iraq. He was wrong… [Obama responds](http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/05/23/whose-judgment-on-iraq-has-been-consistently-wrong/) > [@](#): > > While I always appreciate hearing the news from John McCain, he should explain to the American people why almost every single promise and prediction that he has made about Iraq has turned to be catastrophically wrong, including his support for a surge that was supposed to achieve political reconciliation. As Crooks and Liars suggests, it’s the old “Project your weakness on your opponent” Rove mind trick. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083/40 "2008-05-23T18:25:39Z")
Why is Obama working with Jim Johnson? The guy was a double loser. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-presidential-race/450083.md?page=3)