# the prevalence of pedophilia

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [January 30, 2009, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702 "2009-01-30T10:43:25Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/41 "2009-01-30T20:32:30Z")

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> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#):
>
> Whereas pedophilia generally involves an actual rejection of adult sexuality. One might say pedophilia stops where ephebophilia begins.
> 
> So even pathologically, the two are quite distinct.

Not to mention that in some countries, ephebophilia isn’t even a crime. The worldwide average age of consent is actually closer to 15 or 16, and in some places, it’s as low as 12. ([Cite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe))

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**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/42 "2009-01-30T21:23:11Z")

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> [@Freudian\_Slit](#):
>
> What about the fact that most victims of pedophiles tend to be female, and the fact that most child molesters male?

Well, I’d buy that almost all pedophiles are male\*. But for them, it seems to be the _non_-sexuality of the child which is important.  
\*(of course, there are plenty of female ephebophiles. But many men seem to look upon the 15yo boy molested by the 30yo MILF teacher as him “getting lucky” not as “abused” as **MichaelJohnBertrand** said)

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**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/43 "2009-01-30T21:37:49Z")

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You might find [this](http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/prevention_plan.html) to be interesting reading. I disagree with your suggestion that the abused are more likely to abuse, except with respect to people who abuse children because they have an antisocial personality disorder, since the incidence of abuse in the background of this class of folks does seem to be quite high (even allowing for the “likely to be lying” factor, which is high). But these folks account for a very small proportion of the acts of child molestation.

Most of the acts of child molestation (95% according to the Abel/Harlow study) are commited by people who have an _ongoing_ sexual attraction to children. Please note, people who have an ongoing sexual attraction to children do not always act on it – so a pedophile is not necessarily a child abuser. And most of _them_ (93%, ditto) also have an ongoing sexual interest in adults.

If you are worried about it, you ought to find out more about it. The reading list on that website is quite good, you might want to start there.

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**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/44 "2009-01-30T21:44:12Z")

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> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Well, I’d buy that almost all pedophiles are male\*. But for them, it seems to be the _non_-sexuality of the child which is important.  
> \*(of course, there are plenty of female ephebophiles. But many men seem to look upon the 15yo boy molested by the 30yo MILF teacher as him “getting lucky” not as “abused” as **MichaelJohnBertrand** said)

Well, I meant that it’s not like female victims of pedophiles are going on to become pedophiles themselves. So that seems like evidence to break the link. And yeah, I also wouldn’t count the women who sleep with teen boys as pedophiles–messed up, yeah, but not pedophiles.

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**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/45 "2009-01-30T23:37:01Z")

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> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#):
>
> It’s a distinction worth making. The fact that current society dictates (I think wisely) that there’s a period after sexuality maturity where the rules are different does fly in the face of basic biology. We’re programmed to start “mating” right away. If you waited till you were thirty to have kids in the Dark Ages, you’d die first! 😛 .

Arrgh! Pet Peeves activated! Must post!!!

1. Women in hunter-gatherer societies typically hit puberty at 16-17 years of age, rather than 12, so “sexual maturity” used to be rather more closely associated with physical and mental maturity than it is now.

2. The low life expectancy of the Middle Ages was due to high infant mortality, not everyone dropping dead at 29; if you made it into adolescence you had a fair shot at seeing 60. Most peasant populations didn’t marry until the mid-20’s, and teenage pregnancy was not common (humans, like other mammals, tend to respond to tough times by delaying reproduction).

Cites on request.

JRB

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**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/46 "2009-01-31T00:00:01Z")

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> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> So ultimately, you’ll do better to live in fear of your toddler being knocked over by a blind person, breaking her neck, than that she will be snatched by a pedophile.

If the blind people were _purposely setting out to injure children in that way_, perhaps.

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**Author:** ![fatnugly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@fatnugly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatnugly)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/47 "2009-01-31T01:09:16Z")

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Per this site [http://www.history.vt.edu/Jones/SHCY/Newsletter10/Lindenmeyer.html](http://www.history.vt.edu/Jones/SHCY/Newsletter10/Lindenmeyer.html)  
It seemed to be the last bastion of risk—as late as 1925 the allowable age at marriage was twelve (or as low as seven by judicial order) for females in fourteen states. Others set the minimum between fifteen and seventeen with only one state at eighteen and twenty-one for males.  
Maybe just the times have changed not the interest in children.

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**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/48 "2009-01-31T01:14:41Z")

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Where are some of you ( **GuanoLad** and **Dead Badger** ) getting the spelling of “paedophile” for “pedophile”? It’s not even in the [dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paedophile) as an alternate spelling.

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**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/49 "2009-01-31T01:16:52Z")

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> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Where are some of you ( **GuanoLad** and **Dead Badger** ) getting the spelling of “paedophile” for “pedophile”? It’s not even in the [dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paedophile) as an alternate spelling.

It’s the British spelling.

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**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/50 "2009-01-31T01:33:13Z")

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> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Where are some of you ( **GuanoLad** and **Dead Badger** ) getting the spelling of “paedophile” for “pedophile”? It’s not even in the [dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paedophile) as an alternate spelling.

[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#Simplification_of_ae_.28.C3.A6.29_and_oe_.28.C5.93.29) to the rescue! Though I’m not sure how much longer these differences in spelling will last, as the internet brings the world into a more homogenous state.

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**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/51 "2009-01-31T02:03:21Z")

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> [@JR\_Brown](#):
>
> Arrgh! Pet Peeves activated! Must post!!!
> 
> 1. Women in hunter-gatherer societies typically hit puberty at 16-17 years of age, rather than 12, so “sexual maturity” used to be rather more closely associated with physical and mental maturity than it is now.
> 
> 2. The low life expectancy of the Middle Ages was due to high infant mortality, not everyone dropping dead at 29; if you made it into adolescence you had a fair shot at seeing 60. Most peasant populations didn’t marry until the mid-20’s, and teenage pregnancy was not common (humans, like other mammals, tend to respond to tough times by delaying reproduction).
> 
> Cites on request.
> 
> JRB

Really? Consider my eyes opened! I didn’t know this.

Thanks for the update!

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**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/52 "2009-01-31T02:51:00Z")

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> [@JR\_Brown](#):
>
> 1. Women in hunter-gatherer societies typically hit puberty at 16-17 years of age, rather than 12, so “sexual maturity” used to be rather more closely associated with physical and mental maturity than it is now.
> 
> …Cites on request.

Request submitted on this one.

Anyway, we humans (_most_ of us, anyhow) haven’t lived in hunter-gatherer societies for several thousand years.

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**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/53 "2009-01-31T03:00:47Z")

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> [@spoke-](#):
>
> Request submitted on this one.

How about an [anti-cite](http://www.hero.ac.uk/uk/research/archives/2006/grown_up_children.cfm)?

> [@](#):
>
> Professors Mark Hanson, of the Centre for the Developmental Origins of Health and Disease at Southampton University, and Peter Gluckman, of University of Auckland, published their review of the evolution of puberty in December’s Trends in Endocrinology and Metabolism. The authors discuss the various adaptive mechanisms that may influence the early or late onset of puberty and menarche in human beings, and argue that modern life has allowed a return to the developmental pattern evolved for hunter-gatherer societies.

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**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/54 "2009-01-31T03:58:58Z")

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I suppose pedophilia is a continuum, like homosexuality. Some people are 100% same-sex-only, some will sleep with anything that moves. Most are in the vast middle.

Man of us looked at the Olsen Twins with lust in our hearts. Sort of anyway. Congratulations! You’re a pedophile! Look at how we talk about lovers, we call them “baby,” where does that come from? (If she calls me “daddy,” I am so out of there.)

If pedophilia is an immutable part of character (like hetro- or homo-sectarianism), then what ought we to do with pedophiles? That is, as they say, a good question.

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**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/55 "2009-01-31T04:06:07Z")

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I thought people only looked at the Olsen twins as bizarre bobble headed trolls.

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**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/56 "2009-01-31T04:12:09Z")

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> [@KGS](#):
>
> Not to mention that in some countries, ephebophilia isn’t even a crime. The worldwide average age of consent is actually closer to 15 or 16, and in some places, it’s as low as 12. ([Cite.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe))

The most surprising thing about that link is that the youngest age (12) is in the Vatican City.

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**Author:** ![bubba\_jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@bubba\_jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba_jr)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/57 "2009-01-31T04:48:17Z")

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This may not add a damn (woops, pit, fuckin’) think to this conversation, but my experiences with a few people that have been abused and one convicted abuser(child rapist).

I’ve known 4 women that have been supposedly abused as young’ns(raped by family). I’ve known them quite well, and actually sort of technically lived with all of them for a year or more. Two were my girlfriends, two were a room mates girlfriend(s). I believe one of my girlfriends and one of my room mates girlfriends. The other two lied so much I couldn’t tell, if they said the sky was blue, I would run outside to see if it had actually turned mauve or hot pink. If they said this Hershey chocolate bar was really chocolaty, I’d have to take a bite to make sure they hadn’t changed chocolate to peanut butter or brussel sprouts.

So, on the victim end, I really don’t know if they use it as an excuse and a “pity party” for all their fucked behavior or they are fucked up because of that. Even the two that were dead nuts honest were pretty fucked up, and I’ve got a pretty good honest bone, \<— that doesn’t sound good, I think I pick up on BS pretty good.

Now, my ex-girlfriend, who I trusted, friends with for quite a few years with before we started getting freaky. She was my dog sitter, my housekeeper, my favorite bartender, and she also worked for me at the real job for a while(not her thing but she needed the money and I needed the help). I was mister fix it and move it. We were good friends. I knew she was abused as a young child by her uncle and then on into her teens by a step father.

Anyways, turns out her son, who lived with her ex-husband, at around his 17th birthday (not sure if it happened before or after) decided to rape a 7 year old boy. 7 counts of nastiness, plead guilty to 2 counts of first degree criminal sexual penetration of a 7 year old boy.

We need names here, him and her is stupid, her is Terri, and he is Chester the child molester.

Sorry if this gets confusing. The ex husband moved a few hours away. Terri missed her son, as she should, so I lent her my truck to go get him(her car was a POS). She went and got him and then found out she was now responsible for bringing him to court for his hearings(he turned 18 2 days after she went to get him).

The day of that first court hearing sucked for me, I got to listen to her cry, and what she kept saying was “he doesn’t seem sorry, there’s no remorse, there’s NOTHING, its like he doesn’t even care”.

Turns out that Chester the Child fucker was also diagnosed by the court as “antisocial”, as in a sociopath, of course he didn’t care. For a while I tried to make some sense, I couldn’t. She tried talking to him and talking to him and talking to him, she said Chester wouldn’t even deny it.

So me and her aren’t together anymore, she moved her 3 and 5 year old grandchildren into her house with Chester, against his probation, a friend of mine went over their, and it was just the 3 yr old, the 5 yr old and Chester.

Yes I reported it, nothing happened, I wrote the governor, congressman, senators, county commissioners, DA, state senators, state congressman, and I did luck upon one that funded programs for detained and troubled youth, they actually took it took it seriously. The only other letter I got back was from our now retired senator, and I was told, it wasn’t his problem, I hope somebody fucks him in the ass.

I did actually get one call from the investigator, 4 months after the fact, I told her I was scared of Chester, she asked why, “DUH, HE RAPED A CHILD, and doesn’t care”. She didn’t seem concerned. The lady on the hotline was VERY concerned, forwarded immediately to the sheriff’s department, probation, and DCYS. I do believe she was a volunteer so she actually gave a shit.

So now we have four generations of abused, Uncle doing to Terri, Terri raising Chester, and then handing “Chester the already convicted” the next generation. Its like a family tradition(he already got a cousin, so that didn’t count toward the 4th generation, just spreading it out through the 3rd).

Now I don’t know if anything actually happened to the 4th generation, though if it did, it would be all “hush, hush”. Because he is such a GOOD little molester. I shouldn’t actually say molester, because molest means touch, 1st degree criminal sexual penetration means rape. Fucker should be dead or in jail. You don’t fuck with kids, actually yeah you do (I got your nose). You don’t have sex with kids, you don’t rape kids.

As Terri told me, I “know” something happened, she didn’t deny he was guilty. But yet she still put her grandchildren at risk. I know, but he was their uncle and he would never do anything to his nephews, and I do believe my last words to her were, “I guess you enjoyed what your uncle did to you so much that you thought your grandchildren should enjoy the same experience”. I haven’t talked to her since, but I heard through the grapevine that Chester was out of there in short order, even though the grandkids had already gone.

Terri kept telling me “have a herd(a few kids) of your own, you’ll see what its like”, and from a friend, who has a herd. “If my son did that, I’d take him out back to the wood shed and put a bullet in his head”, I concur with my friend.

Sorry for the unjointed rant, the whole topic just pisses me off, being a kid is hard enough, just trying to figure out the world without some freak trying to get you naked and make you bleed.

I have a love hate relationship with kids, they make me happy, they make me smile they are fun to teach some horrible little trick or habit to that will piss off their parents (my friends), then you disappear for a while. Pure innocent care free fun, thats what kids are for, your don’t screw with them, well, except “I got your nose”, “pull my finger” is also allowed, and if its your ornery little cousin a spoonful of horseradish in place of applesauce is also allowed, but I never did that… :rolleyes:

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**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/58 "2009-01-31T15:43:05Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> “If my son did that, I’d take him out back to the wood shed and put a bullet in his head”, I concur with my friend.

Out of curiosity, what crimes other than child rape would you murder your own underage kid for perpetrating? If he held up a convenience store and shot the clerk, would that also get him a bullet in the head out back? If not, can you explain what’s so different about this particular crime that you think the justice system should not deal with it?

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**Author:** ![MichaelJohnBertrand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dfb087/32.png) [@MichaelJohnBertrand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelJohnBertrand)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/59 "2009-01-31T16:32:26Z")

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> [@Paul in Saudi](#):
>
> Man of us looked at the Olsen Twins with lust in our hearts. Sort of anyway. Congratulations! You’re a pedophile! Look at how we talk about lovers, we call them “baby,” where does that come from? (If she calls me “daddy,” I am so out of there.)

That’s another troubling aspect to the whole issue. I’ve been thinking thorny thoughts lately about that. Why do we call a certain sort of attractiveness “cute”? AFAICT (As Far As I Can Tell), the “cuteness” response is largely there so that we will have warm feelings towards our children and take care of them and such. So why is a “cute boy” sexy? why is it we can be charmed by someone’s vulnerability?

Time to re-read “The Naked Ape” by Desmond Morris, methinks! I’ve read it a half dozen times, and each time it sparks more mind-blowing revelations about the human animal in me.

> [@Paul in Saudi](#):
>
> If pedophilia is an immutable part of character (like hetro- or homo-sectarianism), then what ought we to do with pedophiles? That is, as they say, a good question.

I’m sorry, but what is “hetro- or homo-sectarianism”?

As for “what ought we do with pedophiles?”, that’s another thorny and complicated issue. On the one hand, there’s some hard cold facts.

1. The recidivism rate for convicted pedophiles is extremely high.
2. All currently known treatments have a very low success rate.
3. A single pedophile can harm many children in a lifetime
4. The harm they do can last a lifetime, and in some cases. might even contribute to their victim becoming a pedophile themselves

Against this frigid truths is our desire to be humane, fair, and just. Presumably, nobody chooses to become a pedophile. And once they are one, it seems like they are one for life. That taboo, once shattered, cannot be repaired. So in some ways, pedophiles are victims themselves.

So what to do? I can’t see a way around long sentences, even life sentences. The logistics of having a pedophile free but keeping them away from children are quite daunting. Perhaps someone could invent a reverse house-arrest anklet, which instead of keeping you inside your home, would keep the wearer out of certain areas, sounding a warning as they approach said areas and setting off an alarm if they enter them.

I do support special prisons for highly at-risk prisoners, like sex offenders. Unless we make pedophilia a capital crime, they do not deserve to die from prison violence. We just need to keep them away from the kids.

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**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\
**Post date:** [January 31, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prevalence-of-pedophilia/483702/60 "2009-01-31T16:35:21Z")

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> [@MichaelJohnBertrand](#):
>
> 1. The recidivism rate for convicted pedophiles is extremely high.

Wrong. It’s actually quite low, and much, much higher for just about every other kind of crime.

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