# The Priciness of Mars **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467 "2013-05-04T03:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/21 "2013-05-04T22:11:58Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Yet many hundreds were built. > > And the cost, though considerable, was dramatically less than the lowest estimate of even a single one-way trip to Mars. Yeah, a fairly low estimate of a journey to Mars is in the trillions, which is a substantial portion of the entire GDP of the USA. And the USA has a much larger population than Spain did. If the USA had a World War II-esque dedication to a journey to Mars, which would only realistically last a few years before our economy was severaly affected, we may – _may_ – be able to launch literally one or two colony ships. And they might not make it or thrive. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/22 "2013-05-05T00:13:14Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Yeah, a fairly low estimate of a journey to Mars is in the trillions, which is a substantial portion of the entire GDP of the USA. And the USA has a much larger population than Spain did. If the USA had a World War II-esque dedication to a journey to Mars, which would only realistically last a few years before our economy was severaly affected, we may – _may_ – be able to launch literally one or two colony ships. And they might not make it or thrive. I should think that a NASA manned Mars effort would almost certainly not be focused on colonization but on a go-and-come-back expedition. I mean, imagine how Tellurian scientists salivate at the thought of holding samples from Mars in their hands (so to speak, surely they would be kept in isolation). Mars One seeks to bypass the enormous expense of the return trip, but as far as I can see, the prospect of never coming back to Earth would have an unimaginable effect on the Mars One astronauts. The television value of astronauts who went there and came back seems much more palatable than the opportunity to watch insanity slowly take its toll on the Martians. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/23 "2013-05-05T00:38:26Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Nobody was sending colonists, they were going. And setting up shop in the Americas didn’t require any technology which wasn’t already being used back home. Moreover, the references to Columbus are a bit off-target: his voyage to the Americas had nothing to do with colonization and everything to do with trying to find an alternative route to the (East) Indies, which were already well known as a very lucrative source of commodities. Then other early voyages to the Americas brought back reports of amazingly abundant natural resources, from the gold of South America to the pelts, fish and “train oil” of the Northeast. The economic calculus for colonizing the Americas was **vastly** different from that for trying to settle humans on Mars. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/24 "2013-05-05T00:57:47Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Does _everything_ need to have a profit motive? Can’t you imagine other reasons for wanting to have a colony on Mars? “Wanting to have a colony on Mars”, in the sense of daydreaming about how cool it would be if that were a feasible project, is different from thinking it makes sense actually to try to start a Martian colony in the current state of technology. [QUOTE=Dewey Finn] For one, we need, long-term, to establish humanity off-Earth, so that the species survives a global disaster. [/QUOTE] Since any extraterrestrial human colony on any non-Earth object presently known to us is many orders of magnitude more likely to be wiped out than the terrestrial human species is, and will remain so for more or less the foreseeable future, that sounds pretty dubious as a backup plan. If colonization were cheap and easily replicable in different locations, that would be a different story. Seeding a few humans all over the solar system on the off-chance that something might take out Earth before the extraterrestrial colonies succumb to catastrophic failure, and the even-more-off chance that one or more of those colonies might actually achieve long-term survival and thus save the human species from extinction? Sure, why not, as long as it doesn’t cost much. But starting an off-world colonization project when colonization requires substantial amounts of the resources available to terrestrial humans, whose long-term chances of survival as a species are still vastly greater than those of any human colonies off-world? Dumb. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/25 "2013-05-05T01:06:02Z")
I read the title as “The Princess of Mars,” and the first words that came into my head were _Dejah Thoris_. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/26 "2013-05-05T01:21:49Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Will they be serving OJ in flight? For 33 years. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/27 "2013-05-05T02:05:59Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I read the title as “The Princess of Mars,” and the first words that came into my head were _Dejah Thoris_. > > That is all. This. And I KEEP reading it as “The Princess of Mars”, even though I now know better. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/28 "2013-05-05T02:49:09Z")
Isn’t this the project that they want to fund by turning the process, travel and living there into one big Big Brother TV show? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/29 "2013-05-05T03:10:02Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > Isn’t this the project that they want to fund by turning the process, travel and living there into one big Big Brother TV show? Yes, and the winner will be the Princess of Mars! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/30 "2013-05-05T16:37:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > This. And I KEEP reading it as “The Princess of Mars”, even though I now know better. This. Is it a sequel to “The Prince of Tides,” or some old Zsa Zsa Gabor flick. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/31 "2013-05-05T17:49:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I read the title as “The Princess of Mars,” and the first words that came into my head were _Dejah Thoris_. > > That is all. what’s next in this series?? The CEOs of Mars The Landlord of Mars ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/32 "2013-05-05T17:58:21Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > what’s next in this series?? > > The CEOs of Mars > > The Landlord of Mars Depends on whether the author is more influenced by Burroughs or Norman… The Kinky Bondage Lords of Mars The Almost-Naked Submissive Women of Mars The Incredibly Strange Martians Who Stopped Loving And Became Crazy Mixed-Up Masochists ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/33 "2013-05-05T19:28:48Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > what’s next in this series?? > > The CEOs of Mars > > The Landlord of Mars Olympus Monshop ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/34 "2013-05-05T20:52:05Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Scientific knowledge has monetary value, although there are very few customers who are willing to pay for it. Governments routinely pays for research through grants and contracts. Some private foundations too. But that’s about it. But the fiscal benefits of scientific research often come decades after the investment, and the returns are generally to parties other than those who originally funded the research. A prime example of this is computer technology; the original investment in modern computing, memory, and networking technology was done largely for military purposes, and the applications, such as the SAGE air defense system, were often premature and impracticable. But the core technology allowed others to make billions of dollars once the various components and infrastructure matured sufficiently. As for making space ventures profitable, this depends on the same kind of technological maturity, although the necessary technology and infrastructure to extract resources, refine them, and return them to Earth are several orders of magnitude more difficult than developing modern digital computing and the Internet. This would require significant advances in surface-to-orbit technology; interplanetary propulsion; autonomous assembly, mining, and manufacturing; radiation protection and hardening; and space habitation. It seems unlikely that it will ever be cost effective to lift materials out of one gravity well, even one as close as the Moon much less as difficult to reach (as much in terms of energy as linear distance) as Mars, but there are certainly mineral resources that are relatively near and easy to reach which potentially could be profitable and/or move pollution-generating processing (such as that for rare earth materials) off the surface of the Earth. But the real reason to develop such a space-based infrastructure isn’t profit back on Earth (which is questionable in the best of rational projections) but to support an off-planet population. To that end, constructing many large habitats which replicate terrestrial conditions and optimize habitable surface to the extent feasible is preferable to the at best marginally habitable conditions on the surface of any natural planet or satellite. As for colonizing the surface of the Moon, while that may seem like a suitable testbed for future exploration, the fact is that the Moon is particularly unsuitable for habitation. The problems with the ionized dust of lunar regolith, which sticks to every surface and creates a cement in mechanical joints, may be technically insolvable. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/35 "2013-05-05T22:25:18Z")
Colonize Mars? Sure! Let’s see the pros and cons: - 180 million miles away (con) -deadly radiation at surface (con) -no oxygen in atmosphere (con) -soil unsuitable for crops (con) -almost as warm as Antarctica (on a summer day) (pro) -easy to travel (planet almost flat) (pro) -no shortage of nutcakes willing to make a one-way trip (pro) -possible remains of ancient Barsoom to be discovered (pro) Let’s go!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/36 "2013-05-05T22:57:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But the real reason to develop such a space-based infrastructure isn’t profit back on Earth (which is questionable in the best of rational projections) but to support an off-planet population. To that end, constructing many large habitats which replicate terrestrial conditions and optimize habitable surface to the extent feasible is preferable to the at best marginally habitable conditions on the surface of any natural planet or satellite. When I was in high school, I read some of the books by [Gerald K. O’Neill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_K._O%27Neill), a Princeton professor who had elaborate plans for large orbiting colonies built from materials mined on the moon. I was really enthusiastic about the idea and really wanted to live on one (and actually still do). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/37 "2013-05-06T00:10:16Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Colonize Mars? Sure! Let’s see the pros and cons: > > - 180 million miles away (con) Hmm, not sure I would call that a con, people suck > [@](#): > > -deadly radiation at surface (con) You forgot the sandstorms. Double-con > [@](#): > > -no oxygen in atmosphere (con) Fair bit of CO[sub]2[/sub], that could be converted to oxygen (or pumped into the beer) > [@](#): > > -soil unsuitable for crops (con) As far as we know > [@](#): > > -almost as warm as Antarctica (on a summer day) (pro) I think I read that it can reach 35C, that is a bit warmer than Antarctica > [@](#): > > -easy to travel (planet almost flat) (pro) Holy crap, have you ever looked at the topography of Mars? It has the highest mountain in the solar system, it is a long long way from being anything like “almost flat” > [@](#): > > -no shortage of nutcakes willing to make a one-way trip (pro) Because, well, people here suck > [@](#): > > -possible remains of ancient Barsoom to be discovered (pro) > Let’s go!😃 You first, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/38 "2013-05-06T01:33:27Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > -easy to travel (planet almost flat) (pro) :dubious: Well, if you don’t count Olympus, the highest freaking mountain on any planet in the solar system… Still, I know what you mean, Mars also has a lot of flattish plains. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/39 "2013-05-06T03:11:25Z")
Heck, Olympus Mons itself is a pretty good approximation of a flattish plane. Sure, it’s tall, but it’s also spread out over such a huge area that the slope is almost nonexistent. A much better objection would be the Spaghetti-Sauce Trench. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467/40 "2013-05-06T03:27:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Heck, Olympus Mons itself is a pretty good approximation of a flattish plane. Sure, it’s tall, but it’s also spread out over such a huge area that the slope is almost nonexistent. A much better objection would be the Spaghetti-Sauce Trench. As true as that is, it is surrounded by Olympus Rupes, a scarp of epic proportions, forming a cliff on the eastern face that rises as much as 15000’. Earth does have some topography that is comparable, but most of it is under many gallons of salty water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-priciness-of-mars/657467.md?page=3)