# The Prince of Darkness Calls for an End to All Evil, and Maybe France. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269 "2004-01-02T12:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/21 "2004-01-04T14:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by runinout \* > \*\* > These sound reasonable to us realists. > \*\* NeoCons distinguish themselves from realists: > [@](#): > > **[url=http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/180]What the Heck Is a Neocon?** > by Max Boot > _Wall Street Journal > December 30, 2002_ > > One group of conservatives believes that we should use armed force only to defend our vital national interests, narrowly defined. They believe that we should remove, or at least disarm, Saddam Hussein, but not occupy Iraq for any substantial period afterward. The idea of bringing democracy to the Middle East they denounce as a mad, hubristic dream likely to backfire with tragic consequences. This view, which goes under the somewhat self-congratulatory moniker of “realism,” is championed by foreign-policy mandarins like **Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft** and **James Baker III**. > > [Neo-Cons] think, however, that “realism” presents far too crabbed a view of American power and responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/22 "2004-01-05T12:53:36Z")
Two more wars and a blockade of an unfriendly nuclear power? Well I guess that’s one way to go. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/23 "2004-01-05T13:15:18Z")
I’d prefer to go a different way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/24 "2004-01-05T17:48:21Z")
According to the CS Monitor’s\* test, I’m a Neo-Conservative, along with… Teddy Roosevelt. I can’t think of better company. [sub]\*Didn’t they sink the Merrimack?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/25 "2004-01-05T17:55:03Z")
> [@](#): > > The idea of bringing democracy to the Middle East they denounce as a mad, hubristic dream likely to backfire with tragic consequences. This view, which goes under the somewhat self-congratulatory moniker of “realism,” is championed by foreign-policy mandarins like Henry Kissinger, Brent Scowcroft and James Baker III. huh, I figured the current US foreign policy should be called “magic realism.” The rhetorical convolutions and nuanced half-truths of the Bushistas certainly would fit into a Borges short story. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/26 "2004-01-05T18:40:05Z")
The CSM thinks I’m a “liberal.” Knock me over with a feather. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/27 "2004-01-05T23:54:40Z")
And I’m a Neocon? I do rather lean right these days, but I prefer to think my position is not really Neocon. I, for example, do not believe that Israel should be supported at all costs. I dewfinitely believe in the Big Stick, though, so I suppose I could shake hands with Teddy Roosevelt. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/28 "2004-01-06T04:24:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > **It also calls for Saudi Arabia and France to be treated not as allies but as rivals and possibly enemies.** Saudi Arabia seems reasonable, but France? I mean **FRANCE?** Please, give me hope, this group of people have no real influence on US politics, right? **RIGHT?** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > huh, I figured the current US foreign policy should be called “magic realism.” The rhetorical convolutions and nuanced half-truths of the Bushistas certainly would fit into a Borges short story. Wouldn´t that be Gabriel García Marques, instead? In any case, just putting both, the neo-con cabal and García Marques (or Borges) side by side is like… you know, like a menace to the balance of the cosmos. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/29 "2004-01-06T05:30:40Z")
I think you probably mean Salvador Dali, and a rip in the fabric of the space-time continuum. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/30 "2004-01-06T05:37:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ale \* > \*\* > Please, give me hope, this group of people have no real influence on US politics, right? **RIGHT?** > \*\* Hope’s what I’m here for. Don’t you worry yourself. These NeoCons “have no real influence on US” foreign policy. Oh yeah, did I mention that Colin Powell’s retiring? ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/31 "2004-01-06T05:53:30Z")
Well, thank you **Simon X** I´m just about to go to sleep, do you want me to have nightmares? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/32 "2004-01-06T05:57:06Z")
Thanks for showing me that quiz. To nobody’s surprise, I’m sure, I turned out to be a “Realist”. I think that fits me pretty well. My politics have changed so much that when I was in high school I was what this test considers to be “Isolationist”, and until I joined the military I was what this test considers “Neoconservative”. It’s amazing what a few years and some contemplation will do, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/33 "2004-01-06T06:20:30Z")
Keep up the good work. Halfway home. Fatted calf on order. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/34 "2004-01-06T11:58:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Washington’s hawks have sent a public manifesto to President George Bush demanding regime change in Syria and Iran and a Cuba-style military blockade of North Korea backed by planning for a pre-emptive strike on its nuclear sites. > > The manifesto, which was sent on Tuesday, is presented as a “manual for victory” in the war on terrorism. It also calls for Saudi Arabia and France to be treated not as allies but as rivals and possibly enemies. Should these plans go forward, I’m sure the US will be making more antagonists and enemies that Perle would find necessary to take out. And when we take that next batch out, the cycle can begin anew! Well thank God _someone_ out there wants to start World War III. I’m sick and tired of just imagining it through movies and books. We need the real thing, baby! Richard Perle for 2008! ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/35 "2004-01-08T00:58:45Z")
Perle and Frum on Fresh Air with Terry Gross hawking their book! ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/36 "2004-01-08T17:46:32Z")
Are the US’s military and financial resources unlimited? I would expect so judging from this “modest proposal”. Yeah, it’s like a world imagined by Dali… on meth. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/37 "2004-01-09T01:07:43Z")
Perle and Frum on Fresh Air with Terry Gross hawking their book! > **[Fresh Air for Oct. 19, 2021: Actor Billy Porter](https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air?todayDate=current)** > > Hear the Fresh Air program for October 19, 2021 Jan 08, 2004 They’re also on Morning Edition ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/38 "2004-01-09T01:12:39Z")
ummm > **[Fresh Air for Oct. 19, 2021: Actor Billy Porter](https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air?todayDate=current)** > > Hear the Fresh Air program for October 19, 2021 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/39 "2004-01-09T01:50:31Z")
They’re advocating national ID cards and the power to revoke the citizenship of American nationals. Why revoke the citizenship of American nationals? All I can guess, at this point, is that this enables the gov to disregard the Constitutional rights of these people. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269/40 "2004-01-09T02:04:01Z")
You gotta be kiddin’ me. (BTW, came up as a liberal on the CS Monitor quiz. Go figure.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prince-of-darkness-calls-for-an-end-to-all-evil-and-maybe-france/222269.md?page=3)