# The Principal Themes of the RNC Convention are Built on Lies and Misrepresentations **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037 "2012-08-29T15:44:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/261 "2012-09-03T18:19:24Z")
Sorry I missed it. You guys do seem like a parody of liberals sometimes, so the line can get blurred to us in the reality-based community. 😃 ETA: I need to start quoting. This was to prr. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/262 "2012-09-03T18:21:11Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > The specific tax increases Obama proposes wouldn’t even eliminate the current year’s budget deficit, let alone put a dent in the cumulative debt. That’s my point. So it’s all helpless, we shouldn’t even try? If we can’t solve a big problem all at once, we should say “Fuck it” and go get drunk instead? Something like that? Or do you have an actual proposal instead? And what is your definition of a “dent”? > [@](#): > > We have to fix entitlements. We have to restore revenues. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/263 "2012-09-03T18:21:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Didn’t those other smart people have good roads and national defense? Yes, they did. And their chances of succeeding depend heavily on their access to the roads, national defense, public education, which Democrats are seeking to provide in abundance to all Americans, not just to those who are already doing very well at the moment. The GOP wants to cut off spending as of now–“I’m okay, Jack–fuck you, get yours” should be their slogan, if they had an honest bones in their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/264 "2012-09-03T18:22:16Z")
So, Strat, you really would want to live in the world the Ryan budget would create. Really? No reservations? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/265 "2012-09-03T18:22:49Z")
We already even tried it. You can read about it in Dickens. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/266 "2012-09-03T18:24:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you look at the proposals that Obama is making, I think a fairer characterization is: “Remove the special tax breaks that the rich get” rather than simply “tax the rich”. I wouldn’t be surprised if Obama really wanted in his heart of hearts to soak the rich a bit more, but that’s not what he’s proposing, and I’m very comfortable with that proposal. > > The Republicans are proposing much more than “eliminate waste”. They are proposing to not only keep the special tax breaks that many of the rich get, but make them even juicier. But what he’s proposing is to let some of the Bush tax cuts, those for the richest, expire (at least for income in excess of $250K). Call it what you want. It’s not much of an impact. My comment on the Pubbies was to point out their version of a “painless” strategy, not to describe their entire platform. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/267 "2012-09-03T18:26:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > We have to restore revenues. Elvis, honestly, I wish the Republicans would give on what Obama proposes on taxing the rich, because it would make apparent that it does almost nothing. This crisis will not be fixed in any large degree by the tax increases Obama is proposing. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/268 "2012-09-03T18:27:37Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Well, I think “tax the rich guys” is always an extremely popular sentiment. I’m sure that’s why Obama and his gang have such a fetish for it–people love the idea. Most people, anyway. > > “Tax the rich” is the Dem’s version of a painless solution. The fact that what they’re proposing won’t solve anything is immaterial. Anyone in the bottom 98% thinks it’s a grand idea. The Pubbies’ version is “eliminate waste.” More empty rhetoric. - SARCASM ALERT \* \* SARCASM ALERT \* \* SARCASM ALERT \* \*SARCASM ALERT \* \*SARCASM ALERT \* Yes, that’s why we’ve raised taxes on the rich so often in my lifetime. > [@jtgain](#): > > This is my point exactly. These brave pioneers that built all of this stuff before we were born was already there. They were there for you, me, Sam Walton, Bill Gates, and the wino that sleeps in the dumpster. > > What distinguishes us five? Is it the Erie Canal, or is it the individual effort we put forth? It can’t be the infrastructure, because we all have it equally. If it was the infrastructure, then everyone would be either Sam Walton, the wino, or somewhere in between. What distinguishes us is our own individual initiative. > > For Obama to marginalize that by saying that there are a lot of smart people out there is absurd. Didn’t those other smart people have good roads and national defense? In much of the world, no they don’t. That’s what distinguishes us five from another five in some other country. And I don’t think Obama is marginalizing anything by pointing that out. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/269 "2012-09-03T18:31:09Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Elvis, honestly, I wish the Republicans would give on what Obama proposes on taxing the rich, because it would make apparent that it does almost nothing. This crisis will not be fixed in any large degree by the tax increases Obama is proposing. I assume that at some point you’ll get around to providing some factual support for your positions, contrary as they are to experience and basic arithmetic. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/270 "2012-09-03T18:32:15Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > So, Strat, you really would want to live in the world the Ryan budget would create. Really? No reservations? Really, what I’d like, is for this to be a true debate of solutions for the most critical campaign issue: the debt crisis and the impact on the economy. Let Ryan’s plan be a starting point. What is the Dems’ solution? Let’s stop talking about throwing grandma off a cliff and “who built what?” and actually act as if this is a critical point in our nation’s history, and that our decisions will determine whether or not we’re going to drive off a cliff. This is not just the bottom of a severe but typical business cycle. We borrow 40 cents of every dollar we spend. We were downgraded n 2010! We can’t afford the future stream of entitlement payments, and we’re already $16 trillion in debt. What will we do? How will we solve this? I have little hope anyone, in either party, has the stomach to actually address the root causes here. I was enthusiastic at Ryan being chosen because it offered at least a glimmer of hope that this election would be a debate of ideas, and not the typical campaign nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/271 "2012-09-03T18:36:20Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Let Ryan’s plan be a starting point. What is the Dems’ solution? Do you understand what Ryan’s plan is? It is to assume we cut spending to a certain percentage of GDP (that happens to entail cutting all non-military spending). That is a deficit plan in the way that “stop them from getting nuclear weapons” is a plan for dealing with Iran. Worse, actually, in that not only is it a non-plan, but it’s sole and simply posited detail is actually terrible policy. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/272 "2012-09-03T18:38:30Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Yes, they did. And their chances of succeeding depend heavily on their access to the roads, national defense, public education, which Democrats are seeking to provide in abundance to all Americans, not just to those who are already doing very well at the moment. The GOP wants to cut off spending as of now–“I’m okay, Jack–fuck you, get yours” should be their slogan, if they had an honest bones in their bodies. What mainstream Republican wishes to eliminate public roads, education, and national defense? I mean, we can quibble around the edges about whether vouchers are good or bad, if teachers unions are good or bad, how much defense spending is enough or too much, but in any event, every mainstream candidate wants to provide these things. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/273 "2012-09-03T18:40:16Z")
To the extent that “soaking the rich” has a symbolic element (and I don’t think any Democrat is claiming that it will fix the economy all by itself), the symbolism is important to the middle-class who is getting screwed by the tax structure. It’s hard to ask a postal worker to dig deeper into his pockets for a extra nickel or two when you’ve got a government claiming that it WANTS those far wealthier than he is to be getting a tax break at the same time. Give me my symbol first, give it clearly and openly, and then we can start talking about taxing the middle-class a little more. Until that day, you’ll get my nickel when you pry it from my cold dead fingers, to use rhetoric some rightwingers will recognize fondly. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/274 "2012-09-03T18:40:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What mainstream Republican wishes to eliminate public roads, education, and national defense? Except for the third category, Paul Ryan. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/275 "2012-09-03T18:40:39Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Really, what I’d like, is for this to be a true debate of solutions for the most critical campaign issue: the debt crisis and the impact on the economy. Let Ryan’s plan be a starting point. What is the Dems’ solution? Let’s stop talking about throwing grandma off a cliff and “who built what?” and actually act as if this is a critical point in our nation’s history, and that our decisions will determine whether or not we’re going to drive off a cliff. > > This is not just the bottom of a severe but typical business cycle. We borrow 40 cents of every dollar we spend. We were downgraded n 2010! We can’t afford the future stream of entitlement payments, and we’re already $16 trillion in debt. What will we do? How will we solve this? > > I have little hope anyone, in either party, has the stomach to actually address the root causes here. I was enthusiastic at Ryan being chosen because it offered at least a glimmer of hope that this election would be a debate of ideas, and not the typical campaign nonsense. I agree there is a problem. The sort of problem that was remediated pretty well during the Clinton years. Why not let THAT economic plan be the starting point? It has a proven track record out here in ‘reality’. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/276 "2012-09-03T18:40:58Z")
**jtgain** : That’s why they only talk about cuts, but without ever saying _where_. Other than to repeal (and replace? 😃 ) ACA, which in fact reduces the deficit. Or the chump change to PBS and the NEA. Or the old classic “wastefraudandabuse”. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/277 "2012-09-03T18:42:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What mainstream Republican wishes to eliminate public roads, education, and national defense? I mean, we can quibble around the edges about whether vouchers are good or bad, if teachers unions are good or bad, how much defense spending is enough or too much, but in any event, every mainstream candidate wants to provide these things. So you’re considering STFU about budgetary issues? That’s certainly good news. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/278 "2012-09-03T18:43:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I assume that at some point you’ll get around to providing some factual support for your positions, contrary as they are to experience and basic arithmetic. Right? [Here ya go](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/how-massive-is-obamas-tax-cuttax-increase/2012/07/09/gJQAhbLGZW_blog.html): > [@](#): > > An alternative method is to look at how much money would be raised under this proposal. Obama’s proposal to extend the tax cutes for income under $250,000 in 2013 would reduce revenue by $150 billion, according to the White House. (For reasons too complicated to explain, that is a 10-year estimate, but much of the revenue loss would be in the first year.) > > That compares to a decrease in revenue of $215 billion if the upper-income rates were also extended. This week’s proposal officially does not include a fix for the alternative minimum tax, a tax on the rich which increasingly snags middle-class Americans, which is why outside analysts say the revenue loss could be even higher. That’s $65 billion his proposal will net gain if only the portion he wants to expire does. Or count the whole $215B. Whatever. Our current year’s budget deficit is projected to be what, $1.2 trillion? Can you do the arithmetic for me, Elvis? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/279 "2012-09-03T18:45:05Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I agree there is a problem. The sort of problem that was remediated pretty well during the Clinton years. Why not let THAT economic plan be the starting point? It has a proven track record out here in ‘reality’. Let’s discuss that, then. Let’s see what works when the numbers are crunched. But understand, we’re not in the Clinton years any more, whoever’s fault that is. We are in an enormous hole. Let’s let the ideas be debated. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/280 "2012-09-03T18:45:57Z")
Taxes for the rich are lower now than it has been in decades and the supposed “job creators” still haven’t created jobs. I say keep raising the taxes on them every year until they start hiring. Tax increases should be tied to jobs, that should get them moving [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037.md?page=15)