# The Principal Themes of the RNC Convention are Built on Lies and Misrepresentations **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 29, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037 "2012-08-29T15:44:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/341 "2012-09-04T17:25:08Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I agree with this. The concerted misinformation campaign that the Bush admin came out with right around the time of the vote was designed to make it difficult for anyone to vote against the authorization to use force. The bill itself included weasel words that suggested it was authorizing every means short of force but allowing force as a **last resort.** Yep. Anyone who thought Bush wasn’t absolutely determined to go to war was deluding themselves. It was obvious. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/342 "2012-09-04T17:29:47Z")
We all knew Bush was going to war no matter how the vote went. At the time, the patriotic correctness demanded that we all stand behind Bush and give him the tools to do the job. That he deliberately lied to make the case for war wasn’t determined until much later. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/343 "2012-09-04T17:45:54Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I said the tax increases on the table for the rich will not solve the debt crisis. Nothing solves the debt crisis unless we can back to a normal economy. Remember when we discussed how Japan’s lost decade could be our future, well, we are almost halfway there. > [@](#): > > The CBO says Ryan’s plan gets us to a surplus. Let’s not accept anything lock, stock and barrel, or without debate and discussion. But let’s start with something that actually has a shot at solving the problem, per the non-partisan CBO. Is this the old “kill medicare” Ryan plan or the new and improved "oh I didn’t mean it, I ant to give you a choice between the medicare you have now or some piece of shit plan that noone is going to elect unless they have retiree health care benefits from work (and thereby shift costs to a strained pension system). > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Exactly. And to expand on John’s point, from his cite, that 75% rate on the rich “would cover less than 20% of the year’s deficit.” Of the year’s deficit. We are not going to “tax the rich” out of this problem. In a normal economy (and if we fix medicare, a BIG if; we could fix social security tomorrow if we wanted to), the deficit is about 250 billion as our receipts go up and our spending on stuff like unemployment goes down. We can just repeal the bush tax cuts for the rich and close about a third of that deficit. I liked McCain’s plan to offer each joint chief a discretionary budget equal to 50% of the cuts they propose to their own programs. So if they cut a weapons system they don’t want, they can use half the money they cut for other things they DO want. This is estimated to be worth about 100 billion/year. I like Universal health care as a method of reining in national medical costs. Something like France would be a good start, then progress to something like Canada’s system. > [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > The problem is that the deficit hawks are idiots. They have connected the deficit to the economy in people’s minds, but that’s wrong. A little inflation would not be the end of the world. Without spending the economy can do nothing but continue its stagnation. I think this needs to be repeated. Somehow, deficits have been connected to recession. The connection is tenuous and separated by several degrees. We should be running huge deficits at these rates. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > How much debt are you willing to take on, as a percent of GDP, before you decide that’s not so good an idea? Whatever it takes. The public debt would have to be over 100% before I started to get concerned. Ideally our public debt would hover at around 20% of GDP. > **[File:Publicly Held Federal Debt 1790-2009.png](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Publicly_Held_Federal_Debt_1790-2009.png)** > > Original file (1,700 × 620 pixels, file size: 36 KB, MIME type: image/png) > Congressional Budget Office, Figure 1 of "Federal Debt and the Risk of a Fiscal Crisis", July 27 2010. > https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/mark/1.0/PDMCreative Commons Public Domain Mark 1.0falsefalse Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > **[File:USDebt.png](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png)** > > Original file (744 × 1,004 pixels, file size: 53 KB, MIME type: image/png) >   > United States Government > Data for 1940-2010 are available from the United States Government at http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals archive copy at the Wayback Machine > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just to be clear, I’m not saying we need to panic about the debt right now. I’m just not willing to buy into the idea that we need to ignore the deficits until the economy recovers, no matter how long that takes and no matter how much debt we rack up. There is no “wonk consensus” about where the trip point is, even if there seems to be a consensus that it isn’t right now. I think there is a consensus that the tipping point floats with the interest rate and the bigger concern isn’t so much the debt as it is whether we will have the long term discipline to reduce our debt when we have a surplus rather than “give it back” to the taxpayer in the form of more tax cuts “for the rich” ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/344 "2012-09-04T17:51:10Z")
And may the Good Lord Above protect us if we elect another Republican President and who really does find evidence of an enemy planning to use WMD against us, but doesn’t quite have that evidence in final and definitive form just yet…because I think we’re all going to die before this Congress accepts evidence that’s not lock solid. (I phrase it like that because I think it’s only a little less likely that there is a Good Lord Above to protect us than a Congress that will in these circumstances.) IOW fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, we won’t get fooled again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/345 "2012-09-04T19:22:29Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > And may the Good Lord Above protect us if we elect another Republican President and who really does find evidence of an enemy planning to use WMD against us, but doesn’t quite have that evidence in final and definitive form just yet…because I think we’re all going to die before this Congress accepts evidence that’s not lock solid. > > (I phrase it like that because I think it’s only a little less likely that there is a Good Lord Above to protect us than a Congress that will in these circumstances.) IOW fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, we won’t get fooled again. Are you saying that a Republican president by would have no credibility because of what George Bush did (well maybe Nixon too)? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/346 "2012-09-04T19:53:52Z")
For these Democratic legislatures, I think so. In time, another flock of Democratic legislators may be willing to get gulled, and GOP legislators are always going to spread their legs for any GOP Prez who waves his dick around, but these guys now have gotten BURNED. I’d hope they’d be the most skeptical bunch of people ever to a GOP President who came crying to them with vague reports of WMDs somewhere. If they were to go for it again, I’d impeach them before I’d impeach the President–they know better. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/347 "2012-09-04T22:47:31Z")
Before going to far into the CBO analysis of Ryan’s plan make sure you realize that [Ryan told them what assumptions to use on Revenues and spending](http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43113): > [@](#): > > The amounts of revenues and spending to be used in these calculations for 2012 through 2022 were provided by Chairman Ryan and his staff. The amounts for 2023 through 2050 were calculated by CBO on the basis of growth rates, percentages of gross domestic product (GDP), or other formulas specified by Chairman Ryan and his staff. For all years, the Chairman specified that there would be no spending for subsidies to purchase health insurance through new exchanges established under the Affordable Care Act. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/348 "2012-09-06T22:46:43Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > For these Democratic legislatures, I think so. In time, another flock of Democratic legislators may be willing to get gulled, and GOP legislators are always going to spread their legs for any GOP Prez who waves his dick around, but these guys now have gotten BURNED. I’d hope they’d be the most skeptical bunch of people ever to a GOP President who came crying to them with vague reports of WMDs somewhere. If they were to go for it again, I’d impeach them before I’d impeach the President–they know better. Yeah, Hillary is a cautionary tale about what happens when you trust Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/349 "2012-09-07T17:47:15Z")
Okay so this is post convention, but it is evidence as to how the Romney campaign is employing deceit as their primary tool. Romney recently said that the auto bailout proceeded exactly per his recommendations. Apparently, let Detroit go bankrupt meant engage in a managed bankruptcy in the fashion that Obama enacted. Of course, this isn’t the first time he’s wanted to take the credit for it. It’s a new level of pure bullshit though. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/350 "2012-09-08T18:48:59Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Okay so this is post convention, but it is evidence as to how the Romney campaign is employing deceit as their primary tool. Romney recently said that the auto bailout proceeded exactly per his recommendations. Apparently, let Detroit go bankrupt meant engage in a managed bankruptcy in the fashion that Obama enacted. > > Of course, this isn’t the first time he’s wanted to take the credit for it. It’s a new level of pure bullshit though. The problem with Romney’s plan is that his plan would have led to the **liquidation** , not reorganization, of GM and Chrysler. Reorganization at that point in time required a willing lender or equity investor. There were none. GM would still be dead although some parts of it might have been scavenged by whatever remained of the rest of the US auto industry. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/351 "2012-09-08T20:19:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The problem with Romney’s plan is that his plan would have led to the **liquidation** , not reorganization, of GM and Chrysler. Reorganization at that point in time required a willing lender or equity investor. There were none. GM would still be dead although some parts of it might have been scavenged by whatever remained of the rest of the US auto industry. Liquidate, reorganize, whatever…the important thing is that there be some consultants overseeing the details who walk away with a couple of million dollars apiece. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/353 "2012-09-09T13:56:26Z")
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/354 "2012-09-09T14:30:46Z")
Too late. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/355 "2012-09-09T16:22:20Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > I think it’s more like responding to a comment along the lines of “We don’t need government money to pay for fire houses and fire engines, what we need is more heroes like Fireman Smith![huge applause break]” It would be great if anyone was actually saying that. Does Mitt Romney or Paul Ryan, or any other mainstream politician propose eliminating local fire departments? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/356 "2012-09-10T14:05:07Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > It would be great if anyone was actually saying that. Does Mitt Romney or Paul Ryan, or any other mainstream politician propose eliminating local fire departments? I can say no with high confidence - though their policies could lead to closing some fire departments, somewhere. However, the unfortunate fact is that I can’t say the same for all Republicans out there. There may be a few out there who believe that, and we can’t rule it out. In any event, we all know it was an analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/357 "2012-09-10T14:28:58Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > It would be great if anyone was actually saying that. Does Mitt Romney or Paul Ryan, or any other mainstream politician propose eliminating local fire departments? I assume you understand that the post you’re responding to was giving an analogy, not reporting literal republican policy proposals. On the analogy, “not needing government money to pay for fire departments” corresponds to reducing funding for various infrastructure and safety net programs. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/358 "2012-09-12T15:20:30Z")
Hey, I didn’t start the fireman analogy. But I _did_ finish it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/359 "2012-09-12T16:15:59Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Hey, I didn’t start the fireman analogy. **LEONARD BERNSTEIN!** What? Oh… ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037/360 "2012-09-12T16:20:32Z")
Birthday party cheesecake jelly bean BOOM? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-principal-themes-of-the-rnc-convention-are-built-on-lies-and-misrepresentations/633037.md?page=17)