# The problem isn't Donald Trump -- it's the Donald Trump in all of us. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 26, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303 "2017-12-26T06:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/41 "2017-12-27T18:35:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > You mean the America of the Vietnam War, Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, Nixon, dozens of race riots and the assassination of 2/3 of the people on your list? _BURN!_ 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/42 "2017-12-27T18:49:21Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Trump’s cronies are getting away with their looting because it’s a winner-take all executive system and a Republican congress. There’s looting going on? Where? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/43 "2017-12-27T19:03:55Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes. Imagine electing a goat as POTUS. It’s so far out of the norm it cannot be excused or explained away. We’re not talking Romney or even G.W.Bush. We’re talking Trump. If you say it’s true it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/44 "2017-12-27T19:05:46Z")
Trump won by telling people things they “knew” to be true. Democrats lost by not doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/45 "2017-12-27T19:07:57Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > If you say it’s true it must be true. Do you disagree? About the goat or about Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/46 "2017-12-27T19:13:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Do you disagree? About the goat or about Trump? I disagree about continuing this conversation. No offense intended. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/47 "2017-12-27T19:20:30Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I disagree about continuing this conversation. No offense intended. None taken. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/48 "2017-12-27T19:24:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, they bent over backwards to avoid insulting those people, which was a mistake. The Democrats made themselves look like the standard Democrat “centrists” pandering to the right wing bigots, and alienated their supporters into staying home because there’s not much enthusiasm on the left for voting for backstabbers. If you and enough of your friends truly believe that, then we’re well on our way to an 8 year Trump presidency. The alienation of their own came from Hillary and the DNC hijacking the nomination. They might have gained back enough goodwill to win the election if they had [replaced her with Biden](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/brazile-i-considered-replacing-clinton-with-biden-as-2016-democratic-nominee/2017/11/04/f0b75418-bf4c-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.166476d78bfa) after her collapse in NYC. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/49 "2017-12-27T19:29:48Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > If you and enough of your friends truly believe that, then we’re well on our way to an 8 year Trump presidency. > > The alienation of their own came from Hillary and the DNC hijacking the nomination. They might have gained back enough goodwill to win the election if they had [replaced her with Biden](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/brazile-i-considered-replacing-clinton-with-biden-as-2016-democratic-nominee/2017/11/04/f0b75418-bf4c-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.166476d78bfa) after her collapse in NYC. I hate to revisit this myth again, but the DNC didn’t “hijack” the nomination. They preferred Mrs. Clinton, as did most voters. I preferred Bernie in many ways, but Clinton won for valid reasons. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/50 "2017-12-27T19:45:07Z")
I think Donald is one of the most loathsome creatures to inhabit the planet. His intelligence is on a par with Sarah Palin, his treachery far outdoes Nixon, his greed is unparalleled, he’s a bigot to a degree that Archie Bunker himself would find unconscionable, he’s a pathological liar and a shameless con artist. I can get why some people fell for his lies- they may have hated Hillary, they may be die-hard Republicans, they may have thought an outsider would clean things up, they may have thought a businessman would right the economy, they may simply wanted to shake things up. I get that and you weren’t necessarily evil if you voted for him. But that was over a year ago. If you can’t see he is all that I say and more, you’re either stupid or live in an alternate reality or are just plain evil yourself. There is no Donald in all of us, there is enough Donald in some of us that with a little help from the Kremlin and voter suppression he narrowly defeated one of the most unpopular politicians of all time. The basket of deplorables will always be with us, they are beyond reach and fortunately they are a dying breed. Those that voted for Hillary bear no responsibility for the chaos, those that voted for Donald or voted third party are the sole owners of this mess. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/51 "2017-12-27T19:48:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We certainly did not. Look at what happened to Japanese Americans, for example. (post shortened) I remember what happened to the Japanese-Hawaiians, and local residents, on the Hawaiian Island of Niʻihau at the very beginning of the U.S. entry into WWII. \*The Niʻihau incident (or Battle of Niʻihau) occurred on December 7–13, 1941, when Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service pilot Shigenori Nishikaichi (西開地 重徳 Nishikaichi Shigenori) crash-landed his Zero on the Hawaiian island of Niʻihau after participating in the attack on Pearl Harbor. He was killed in a struggle with people on the island. The island’s Native Hawaiian residents were initially unaware of the attack, but apprehended Nishikaichi when the gravity of the situation became apparent. Nishikaichi then sought and received the assistance of the three Hawaiian locals of Japanese descent on the island in overcoming his captors, finding weapons, and taking several hostages. Eventually, Nishikaichi was killed by Niihauans Benehakaka “Ben” Kanahele and Kealoha “Ella” Kanahele;[1] Ben Kanahele was wounded in the process, and one of Nishikaichi’s supporters, Yoshio Harada, committed suicide. The incident and the actions of Nishikaichi’s abettors demonstrated the potential for racial or ethnic allegiance to overwhelm national allegiance. This ultimately may have influenced Franklin D. Roosevelt’s decision to intern Japanese Americans during World War II.\* > **[Niihau incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident)** > > Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service > Hawila Kaleohano Ben Kanahele (WIA) Ella Kanahele Kaahakila Kalimahuluhulu > Shigenori Nishikaichi † Yoshio Harada † Irene Harada Ishimatsu Shintani > The Niʻihau incident occurred on December 7–13, 1941, when the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service pilot Shigenori Nishikaichi (西開地 重徳, Nishikaichi Shigenori) crash-landed on the Hawaiian island of Niʻihau after participating in the attack on Pearl Harbor. The Imperial Japanese Navy had designated Niʻihau as an u... As you no doubt remember, Dec 7, 1941 was the same day that Imperial Japanese forces attacked the U.S. without warning. On Dec 8th, Imperial Japanese forces attacked the British Navy. WWII was spreading quickly. The bottom line is that at the very first opportunity, three Hawaiian locals of Japanese descent, turn against the U.S.A. in order to help her enemy. That incident certainly didn’t build trust in Japanese-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/52 "2017-12-27T19:51:18Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Yes. Imagine electing a goat as POTUS. I’m imagining it. Yeah, that’s better. Though I think I’d prefer a [doodle.](http://sophiesgoldendoodles.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/cropped-Image-4-1-1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/53 "2017-12-27T19:56:48Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > I remember what happened to the Japanese-Hawaiians, and local residents, on the Hawaiian Island of Niʻihau at the very beginning of the U.S. entry into WWII. > > \*The Niʻihau incident (or Battle of Niʻihau) occurred on December 7–13, 1941, when Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service pilot Shigenori Nishikaichi (西開地 重徳 Nishikaichi Shigenori) crash-landed his Zero on the Hawaiian island of Niʻihau after participating in the attack on Pearl Harbor. He was killed in a struggle with people on the island. > > The island’s Native Hawaiian residents were initially unaware of the attack, but apprehended Nishikaichi when the gravity of the situation became apparent. Nishikaichi then sought and received the assistance of the three Hawaiian locals of Japanese descent on the island in overcoming his captors, finding weapons, and taking several hostages. Eventually, Nishikaichi was killed by Niihauans Benehakaka “Ben” Kanahele and Kealoha “Ella” Kanahele;[1] Ben Kanahele was wounded in the process, and one of Nishikaichi’s supporters, Yoshio Harada, committed suicide. > > The incident and the actions of Nishikaichi’s abettors demonstrated the potential for racial or ethnic allegiance to overwhelm national allegiance. This ultimately may have influenced Franklin D. Roosevelt’s decision to intern Japanese Americans during World War II.\* > > [Niihau incident - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident) > > As you no doubt remember, Dec 7, 1941 was the same day that Imperial Japanese forces attacked the U.S. without warning. On Dec 8th, Imperial Japanese forces attacked the British Navy. WWII was spreading quickly. > > The bottom line is that at the very first opportunity, three Hawaiian locals of Japanese descent, turn against the U.S.A. in order to help her enemy. That incident certainly didn’t build trust in Japanese-Americans. Please do not tell me you are justifying in any way shape or form the internment of the Japanese-Americans during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/54 "2017-12-27T20:03:30Z")
[QUOTE=doorhinge;20688015The bottom line is that at the very first opportunity, three Hawaiian locals of Japanese descent, turn against the U.S.A. in order to help her enemy. That incident certainly didn’t build trust in Japanese-Americans.[/QUOTE] Three out of how many? Drawing conclusions about a group based on the actions of a few is what led to the disastrous Iraq invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/55 "2017-12-27T20:54:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I hate to revisit this myth again, but the DNC didn’t “hijack” the nomination. They preferred Mrs. Clinton, as did most voters. I preferred Bernie in many ways, but Clinton won for valid reasons. Maybe so. But enough people believed it that I think it had a significant impact on turnout. And like it or not, the DNC is going to have to work to recover from that belief, accurate or not. If they don’t address it, it’s going to bite them again. Hard. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/56 "2017-12-27T21:09:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Please do not tell me you are justifying in any way shape or form the internment of the Japanese-Americans during WWII. IMO the handful of shelling incidents by the Japanese Navy on the West Coast reaped a worthwhile reward even though they caused minimal physical damage. Causing hundreds of thousands of people to lose their economic productivity and using thousands of lives worth of labor to transport them and keep them confined was worth almost as much as if they had successfully heavily damaged a refinery or an unimportant base. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/57 "2017-12-27T21:14:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Three out of how many? Drawing conclusions about a group based on the actions of a few is what led to the disastrous Iraq invasion. The population of Niihau Island in 1940 was 182 people. > **[1940hawaiipop-12-2016.pdf](https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/1940hawaiipop-12-2016.pdf)** > > 665.13 KB One out of 60 chose to assist with the Imperial Japanese aggression. It is a really small island. IIRC, the latest (current) census showed 160, or 170, people. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/58 "2017-12-27T22:03:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Please do not tell me you are justifying in any way shape or form the internment of the Japanese-Americans during WWII. Just to clarify, are you asking me if the 1942 U.S. government believed that the creation of internment camps was necessary/good idea, or are you asking me, using 20-20 hindsight 75 years after the fact, if the creation of internment camps was required for the safety and security of the U.S.? As it turned out, the internment camps were probably not necessary. I say, “probably” because I don’t know what would have happened if the exclusion zones, and internment camps, had not been created. On Dec 7th, many Americans were angry, shocked, and scared. By Dec 14, after reports of the Niʻihau incident had finally been reported (no radio’s on the island) back to the Hawaiian government, the U.S. military, and presumably, Washington, DC, average Americans were lining up at recruiting stations in order to kill Japanese, defend the U.S.A., and to retaliate against those who had attacked Hawaii without warning. By the time the internment order went into effect in March 1942, approximately 5,000 Japanese Americans had voluntarily relocated outside of the exclusion zones. It wasn’t a safe time for Japanese-Americans. > **[Internment of Japanese Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans)** > > During World War II, the United States forcibly relocated and incarcerated about 120,000 people of Japanese descent in ten concentration camps operated by the War Relocation Authority (WRA), mostly in the western interior of the country. Approximately two-thirds of the detainees were United States citizens. These actions were initiated by Executive Order 9066, issued by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, following Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, Guam, the Philippines... ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/59 "2017-12-27T22:10:43Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > IMO the handful of shelling incidents by the Japanese Navy on the West Coast reaped a worthwhile reward even though they caused minimal physical damage. Causing hundreds of thousands of people to lose their economic productivity and using thousands of lives worth of labor to transport them and keep them confined was worth almost as much as if they had successfully heavily damaged a refinery or an unimportant base. Don’t forget Imperial Japan’s killer hot air balloon attacks of 1944 and 1945. [http://www.history.com/news/attack-of-japans-killer-wwii-balloons-70-years-ago](http://www.history.com/news/attack-of-japans-killer-wwii-balloons-70-years-ago) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/60 "2017-12-28T00:42:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Just to clarify, are you asking me if the 1942 U.S. government believed that the creation of internment camps was necessary/good idea, or are you asking me, using 20-20 hindsight 75 years after the fact, if the creation of internment camps was required for the safety and security of the U.S.? As it turned out, the internment camps were probably not necessary. I say, “probably” because I don’t know what would have happened if the exclusion zones, and internment camps, had not been created. > > On Dec 7th, many Americans were angry, shocked, and scared. By Dec 14, after reports of the Niʻihau incident had finally been reported (no radio’s on the island) back to the Hawaiian government, the U.S. military, and presumably, Washington, DC, average Americans were lining up at recruiting stations in order to kill Japanese, defend the U.S.A., and to retaliate against those who had attacked Hawaii without warning. By the time the internment order went into effect in March 1942, approximately 5,000 Japanese Americans had voluntarily relocated outside of the exclusion zones. It wasn’t a safe time for Japanese-Americans. > > [Internment of Japanese Americans - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans) I thought I was very clear. I’m asking you “not to justify in any way shape or form the internment of the Japanese-Americans during WWII”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303.md?page=4)