# The problem isn't Donald Trump -- it's the Donald Trump in all of us. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 26, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303 "2017-12-26T06:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/61 "2017-12-28T02:40:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) The island’s Native Hawaiian residents were initially unaware of the attack, but apprehended Nishikaichi when the gravity of the situation became apparent. Nishikaichi then sought and received the assistance of the three Hawaiian locals of Japanese descent on the island in overcoming his captors, finding weapons, and taking several hostages. Eventually, Nishikaichi was killed by Niihauans Benehakaka “Ben” Kanahele and Kealoha “Ella” Kanahele;[1] Ben Kanahele was wounded in the process, and one of Nishikaichi’s supporters, Yoshio Harada, committed suicide. > > The incident and the actions of Nishikaichi’s abettors demonstrated the potential for racial or ethnic allegiance to overwhelm national allegiance. This ultimately may have influenced Franklin D. Roosevelt’s decision to intern Japanese Americans during World War II.\* > > [Niihau incident - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident) I for one would like to see something better than a Wiki citation for this. Not saying it didn’t happen, but this could also be a total fabrication to help justify the internment. Oddly enough, Americans of German or Italian decent were not rounded up en masse and sent to internment camps. I grew up with 2nd and 3rd generation Japanese Americans that did time in Tule Lake internment camp. That, like all the internment camps I’m aware of, was in a godawful place. More oddly, about 99% of Japanese Americans in Hawaii were NOT interned for the war. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/62 "2017-12-28T03:30:04Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > You mean the America of the Vietnam War, Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, Nixon, dozens of race riots and the assassination of 2/3 of the people on your list? I’ve received little support in this thread, so Thank you for providing examples that support Traub and myself, **msmith537**! I’ve already mentioned that the Cold War helped unify the U.S. I’m not sure what the Bay of Pigs means to you, but incompetence has little to do with the problems Traub discusses. Nixon was a criminal but, _unlike almost every high official under Trump, personal greed wasn’t his motive._ And which conspiracy theory are we touting if JFK’s assassination was something other than an aberration? I don’t recall many of America’s racists _openly_ celebrating the assassination of Martin Luther King, but when a racist recently murdered an anti-racism protester in Charlottesville, the incumbent President of the U.S.A. chose words that effectively defended the murderer! ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/63 "2017-12-28T03:36:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > snipped out the part not relevant to my post > > Odd. Others condemned the essay for _not_ singling out “conservatives” for blame. You take the opposite view. > > You, **guestchaz** , seem to be severely misinformed about the on-going political tragedy. To satisfy my curiosity, would you please identify an “inflammatory quote out of context” and show the correct context? The part I highlighted in magenta, that wasn’t really what I meant, even though it looks like it. The article struck me as trying to shift the blame from conservatives to everyone else with the insincere sentiments I expressed in my post. Bluntly, the message I took away from the article was this; “Sure we’re{conservatives} to blame, but hey there’s a little trump in all of us so we’re all to blame really”. As far as the quotes out of context, I (as of this moment) don’t know the context. I don’t know what or where the conversation was about, who else was party to the conversation, what else was said as part of it etc. Sure I could look it up pretty easily, but why didn’t the author at least tell us what topic was being discussed in the sources of his quotes? Actually, I take that back in part, as the Buchanan quote is sourced to the republican national convention of a quarter of a century ago. But what about the Gingrich quote? When did Newt Gingrich say that, where, and who else was party to the conversation? What was said before and after Gringrich spoke? Was it at the same convention as Buchanan? Was it in a session of Congress? Before he was Speaker of The House? The article isn’t clear. Either way, the entire tone of the article seems to me to be one of false sentiment and an attempt to divert at least some of the blame away from those who voted for and support(ed) trump. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/64 "2017-12-28T05:03:08Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > … Bluntly, the message I took away from the article was this; “Sure we’re{conservatives} to blame, but hey there’s a little trump in all of us so we’re all to blame really”. … But what about the Gingrich quote? When did Newt Gingrich say that, where, and who else was party to the conversation? … The article isn’t clear… Do you think Traub is a “conservative”? Even my brief excerpt has his “I certainly didn’t vote for Ronald Reagan.” Do you think he’s lying? Traub may not be a rabid progressive: he’s a well-informed and erudite left-of-center thinker; we could use more like him. And Google is your friend! The Gingrich quote comes from his speech at the 1992 GOP convention in which he said “the Democratic Party … despises the values of the American people.” I wonder how you think “multicultural nihilistic hedonism” was taken out of context? From a party game titled “Come up with a multisyllabic phrase that drunken right-wing sophomores might utter”? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/65 "2017-12-28T06:25:07Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Do you think Traub is a “conservative”? Even my brief excerpt has his “I certainly didn’t vote for Ronald Reagan.” Do you think he’s lying? Traub may not be a rabid progressive: he’s a well-informed and erudite left-of-center thinker; we could use more like him. > > And Google is your friend! The Gingrich quote comes from his speech at the 1992 GOP convention in which he said “the Democratic Party … despises the values of the American people.” I wonder how you think “multicultural nihilistic hedonism” was taken out of context? From a party game titled “Come up with a multisyllabic phrase that drunken right-wing sophomores might utter”? 🙂 I don’t know, and I don’t really care if he is conservative or not. I’ve never heard of him before. His style of writing in this article is the style I used in high school when trying to fluff the word count of an essay or trying to make it seem like I was saying something in the essay about whatever the topic was without doing any real work. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/66 "2017-12-28T08:33:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **John** — I’ll stipulate that I was exaggerating, but I think my underlying point is correct. Do you agree that Great Society initiatives or a statement like > \*\*\*“My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.” > \*\*\* would be _utterly impossible_ in the present climate? > And recall discussion of _Occupy Wall Street_: Even here at the “liberal” SDMB, there was little in the way of constructive suggestions, just ridicule. > > Whether I exaggerate is not the issue. Do you agree with Traub’s conclusion? :— > Our political elite will continue to gratify our worst impulses so long as we continue to be governed by them. The only way back is to reclaim the common ground – political, moral, and even cognitive – that Donald Trump has lit on fire. Losing to China is hardly the worst thing that could happen to us. _ **Losing ourselves is.** _ Something to mull over, take “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country” and see it side to side with, for example post #8 were **Hari Seldon** berates people for voting against their own self interest. Which one is it? Is it noble to act in a way contrary to one’s self interest for the sake of one’s values or those who do this are stupid? Perhaps **Hari Seldon** didn’t consider that as a possibility, that some of those people know they’d be better off by voting to get stuff from the government, but their moral conviction is that they shouldn’t. I’m pretty sure that if, for instance, you ask people who oppose populism they’d tell you they are perfectly aware that they could benefit from it but are against it on philosophical grounds. Or just call them stupid, bigoted, racist, etc… I’m sure that would endear them to one’s own view of the world. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/67 "2017-12-28T14:06:15Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Something to mull over, take “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country” and see it side to side with, for example post #8 were **Hari Seldon** berates people for voting against their own self interest. > Which one is it? Is it noble to act in a way contrary to one’s self interest for the sake of one’s values or those who do this are stupid? > Perhaps **Hari Seldon** didn’t consider that as a possibility, that some of those people know they’d be better off by voting to get stuff from the government, but their moral conviction is that they shouldn’t. I’m pretty sure that if, for instance, you ask people who oppose populism they’d tell you they are perfectly aware that they could benefit from it but are against it on philosophical grounds. > > Or just call them stupid, bigoted, racist, etc… I’m sure that would endear them to one’s own view of the world. Putting a racist, bigoted, misogynistic asshole in the white house was for their own self interests in a way. The leader of the country now supports their ideology. Never mind food, science and education. That’s for those smarty pants libruls. And it’s a bonus to them to piss off the ‘opposition’. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/68 "2017-12-28T14:49:32Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I for one would like to see something better than a Wiki citation for this. Not saying it didn’t happen, but this could also be a total fabrication to help justify the internment. Oddly enough, Americans of German or Italian decent were not rounded up en masse and sent to internment camps. Does [11,507 German-Americans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans#World_War_II) count as “en masse”? The problem with rounding up all the Germans and Italians was that there were so damn many of them. But yeah, racial attitudes probably had a lot to do with the Japanese internment, too. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/69 "2017-12-28T19:10:50Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I for one would like to see something better than a Wiki citation for this. Not saying it didn’t happen (post shortened) Wiki is simply a good starting place for information. The wrecked Mitsubishi A6M2 is presently on display at the Pacific Aviation Museum on Ford Island, Hawaii, and two Hawaiians recieved medals for their actions. Someone even wrote a song about the incident. \*ROBINSON FAMILY VISITS NI’IHAU EXHIBIT AT PACIFIC AVIATION MUSEUM Members of the Robinson family, owners of the Ni’ihau island of Hawaii, participated in a private tour of the Pacific Aviation Museum on Ford Island on June 19. The family viewed several of the exhibits, including a Battle of Ni’ihau exhibit featuring the remains of the Japanese Zero which crash-landed on the island immediately following the attack of Pearl Harbor.\* [https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-1295224781.html](https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-1295224781.html) \*Target Pearl Harbor by Michael Slackman Howard Kaleohano and Ben Kanahele became celebrities of a sort. The army decorated Kaleohano with the Medal of Freedom and awarded Ben Kanahele the Medal of Merit and Purple Heart.\* > **[Target](https://books.google.com/books?id=9BEHS5DAB2cC&lpg=PA231&ots=gVdDTozhHs&dq=Ben%20Kanahele&pg=PA231#v=onepage&q=Ben%20Kanahele&f=false)** > > Target: Pearl Harbor takes a fresh look at the air raid that plunged America into World War II by scrutinizing the decisions and attitudes that prompted the attack and left the United States unprepared to mount a successful defense. The core of the... \*They Couldn’t Take Ni`ihau No-how - Words & Music by R. Alex Anderson Chorus: So they couldn’t take Ni`ihau no-how with the Ben Kaneheles around The Jap was a sap to think it a snap When he set his airplane down So they couldn't take Ni`ihau no-how When big Kanehele said “pau!” He made a grand slam for his Uncle Sam and They couldn’t take Ni`ihau no-how\* [http://www.huapala.org/T/They\_Couldnt\_Take\_Niihau.html](http://www.huapala.org/T/They_Couldnt_Take_Niihau.html) The above link also contains a confirming 1943 article written by R. Alex Anderson for the HONOLULU MAGAZINE. ---
**Author:** ![Buttercup\_Smith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buttercup_smith/32/473_2.png) [@Buttercup\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buttercup_Smith)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/70 "2017-12-29T03:40:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think Donald is one of the most loathsome creatures to inhabit the planet. His intelligence is on a par with Sarah Palin, his treachery far outdoes Nixon, his greed is unparalleled, he’s a bigot to a degree that Archie Bunker himself would find unconscionable, he’s a pathological liar and a shameless con artist. I can get why some people fell for his lies- they may have hated Hillary, they may be die-hard Republicans, they may have thought an outsider would clean things up, they may have thought a businessman would right the economy, they may simply wanted to shake things up. I get that and you weren’t necessarily evil if you voted for him. But that was over a year ago. If you can’t see he is all that I say and more, you’re either stupid or live in an alternate reality or are just plain evil yourself. There is no Donald in all of us, there is enough Donald in some of us that with a little help from the Kremlin and voter suppression he narrowly defeated one of the most unpopular politicians of all time. The basket of deplorables will always be with us, they are beyond reach and fortunately they are a dying breed. Those that voted for Hillary bear no responsibility for the chaos, those that voted for Donald or voted third party are the sole owners of this mess. Exactly this. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303/71 "2017-12-29T05:44:50Z")
> [@Buttercup\_Smith](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I think Donald is one of the most loathsome creatures to inhabit the planet. His intelligence is on a par with Sarah Palin, his treachery far outdoes Nixon, his greed is unparalleled, he’s a bigot to a degree that Archie Bunker himself would find unconscionable, he’s a pathological liar and a shameless con artist. I can get why some people fell for his lies- they may have hated Hillary, they may be die-hard Republicans, they may have thought an outsider would clean things up, they may have thought a businessman would right the economy, they may simply wanted to shake things up. I get that and you weren’t necessarily evil if you voted for him. But that was over a year ago. If you can’t see he is all that I say and more, you’re either stupid or live in an alternate reality or are just plain evil yourself. There is no Donald in all of us, there is enough Donald in some of us that with a little help from the Kremlin and voter suppression he narrowly defeated one of the most unpopular politicians of all time. The basket of deplorables will always be with us, they are beyond reach and fortunately they are a dying breed. Those that voted for Hillary bear no responsibility for the chaos, those that voted for Donald or voted third party are the sole owners of this mess. > > Exactly this. Yes, Trump is loathsome but, again, he didn’t invoke the Trillion Dollar Tax Heist via executive order. Fifty-one GOP Senators voted for it. Every GOP Senator except one voted to confirm Pruitt. All but two voted to confirm DeVos. Trump probably needs help just to change his diapers; Pence and Ryan are running much of the show. It is the present-day Republican Party which is especially loathsome and demands our hatred. Donald Trump is just the comic relief. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-isnt-donald-trump-its-the-donald-trump-in-all-of-us/805303.md?page=3)