# The problem of evil **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155 "2004-12-10T17:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![barry\_sanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@barry\_sanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barry_sanders)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/1 "2004-12-10T17:04:12Z")
I was sitting around wondering the other day whether or not anyone finds it an adequate and an acceptable response in defense of the goodness of a traditional, creating god, what response to the problem of evil do you find most convincing? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/2 "2004-12-10T17:16:16Z")
**Barry** , Firstly, welcome to the Boards. Secondly, please forgive me, but I read your question three times and just couldn’t make out what, exactly, you were looking for. Can you please re-state your question? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/3 "2004-12-10T17:23:46Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Secondly, please forgive me, but I read your question three times and just couldn’t make out what, exactly, you were looking for. Can you please re-state your question? So I’m not going mad. I couldn’t interpret it either. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/4 "2004-12-10T17:26:25Z")
I think its the basic ‘If God is good then why is there evil’ question ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/5 "2004-12-10T17:26:20Z")
I may be wrong, but it seems to me the OP wants to know how anyone can justify the existance of a purely good God with all the evil in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/6 "2004-12-10T17:28:13Z")
Simupost, great minds think alike, etc etc etc, right **treis**? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/7 "2004-12-10T17:31:24Z")
I think you could say great minds if we simuposted the answer instead of the question. ---
**Author:** ![barry\_sanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@barry\_sanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barry_sanders)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/8 "2004-12-10T17:36:57Z")
Sorry guys. My question would be what is the best response you have heard in response to the problem of evil that exists with the existance of a purely good god. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/9 "2004-12-10T17:42:25Z")
Thank you **Barry** , for clearing up your question. The classic Jewish answer is that this world is designed as a place where man is allowed to exercise free will. Once you have free will, evil _must_ exist as a possibility. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Ramanujan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Ramanujan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramanujan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/10 "2004-12-10T17:52:09Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I think you could say great minds if we simuposted the answer instead of the question. how many roads must a man walk down? forty-two? the best solution to the problem of evil for me would be to concede that good and evil are relative terms and a creator can be neither of these. however, the best answer from someone who accepts the assumptions is that the definition of “good” is based wholly on god’s actions. that is, good as defined by god, so there is no evil. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/11 "2004-12-10T18:33:18Z")
jeez… I understood something else completely !! arrgghh… :dubious: Well not beleiving in god or God means I have a serious handicap in answering the OP… I’ll just add this: Where does/did God ever say he was “good” ? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/12 "2004-12-10T18:44:16Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Thank you **Barry** , for clearing up your question. > > The classic Jewish answer is that this world is designed as a place where man is allowed to exercise free will. Once you have free will, evil _must_ exist as a possibility. > > Zev Steinhardt I respectfully disagree Zev. I think ‘free will’ is a bit of a nonsequitor as it doesn’t explain where evil came from to begin with. God is all good and created everything, right? Well could evil originate from something that has no evil? How does evil originate in a universe without evil? Furthermore the bible states that God created evil (Isiah 45:7), but why? Certainly not for free will (IMO) because free will can be achieved by exercizing a choice between various types of good and neutral actions. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/13 "2004-12-10T19:21:57Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Furthermore the bible states that God created evil (Isiah 45:7), but why? Maybe you’re looking at a different translation than I. > [@Isaiah 45:7](#): > > I form the light and create darkness, > I bring prosperity and create disaster; > I, the LORD , do all these things. > **[Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 45:7 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=isaiah%2045:7&version=NIV)** > > I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/14 "2004-12-10T19:25:11Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Maybe you’re looking at a different translation than I. > > [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=isaiah%2045:7&version=31](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=isaiah%2045:7&version=31) I am, I’m looking at the original Hebrew. [Check it out.](http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1102706821-1556.html#7) ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/15 "2004-12-10T19:29:16Z")
If you check out the blue letter bible, the word used in that passage is ‘Ra’. If you [check here](http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/e/1102706866-4311.html) you can see all the instances in the bible where the word ‘evil’ (and consequently the hebrew word ‘ra’) is used. For example this passage: > [@](#): > > Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. Which doesn’t make any sense if you substitute ‘disaster’ for evil. The version of the bible you are reading is probably meant to soften the blow, so to speak. As though natural evil was somehow better. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/16 "2004-12-10T19:31:26Z")
Another, and possibly better example, is this: > [@](#): > > Gen 37:20 Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams. Disaster doesn’t make sense in that one either. ---
**Author:** ![JasonFin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4af34b/32.png) [@JasonFin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JasonFin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/17 "2004-12-10T19:51:05Z")
> [@barry sanders](#): > > Sorry guys. > > My question would be what is the best response you have heard in response to the problem of evil that exists with the existance of a purely good god. Interesting way to put it. Because I don’t believe in the existence of a purely good god, Obviously the best answer is that this god, although perfectly good, lacks the power to prevent evil. If you make the standard assumptions of omnipotence and omniscience, the problem is harder. It doesn’t seem totally inconceivable that a purely good God might feel bound to create all possible good. It may be that the world would be better off in _totum_ if there were no evil, more or less by definition, but perhaps there are specific instances of good that could not have come into being if it were not for evil acts. In order to do the greatest amount of good, such a God might have to create all possible worlds in which any good at all exists. Of course, if this were the case, we would expect to have no evidence of any sort for the existence of such an entity, simply because most possible worlds would not contain such evidence. ---
**Author:** ![barry\_sanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f08c70/32.png) [@barry\_sanders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barry_sanders)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/18 "2004-12-10T19:54:50Z")
Here how about this…which of these defenses to you find most accetapble? 1-The Ontological defense- claims that goodness, by its very nature, can’t exist without evil. 2-The Knowledge defense- This argument assumes that a knowledge of evil is a good thing and that such a knowledge cannot be required unless evil exists. 3-The Free will defense- Many believe that eveil is necessary for free will. They assume that having free will is a good thing because without it, there would be no right or wrong actions, no good or bad people. 4-The Ideal-Humanity defense- Natural evil has been defended on the grounds that it is necessary to improve the human race. By pushing some of us to our limits, its claimed the struggle against nature helps us to achieve our potential as a species 5-The Soul Building defense- Evil is necessary, not to improve the human race, but to improve each individual human being. 6-The Finite God defense- One way to explain all the unnecessary evil in the world is to admit that God does not have all the properties traditionally attributed to him. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/19 "2004-12-10T19:56:22Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I am, I’m looking at the original Hebrew. [Check it out.](http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1102706821-1556.html#7) That’s a cool site. I’m bookmarking that one. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155/20 "2004-12-10T20:04:21Z")
This quote I read today seems relevant: > [@](#): > > The God of the Bible–not only did he order His chosen people to carry out literal genocide–…but was ready to destroy every living creature on earth because humans irritated Him. That’s the story of Noah. I mean, that’s beyond genocide–you don’t know how to describe this creature. Somebody offended Him, and He was going to destroy every living being on earth? And then He was talked into allowing two of each species to stay alive–that’s supposed to be gentle and wonderful. > –Noam Chomsky If God is indeed the Creator of Everything™, then He not only created Evil, but freely indulges in it from time to time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-of-evil/279155.md?page=2)