# The problem the GOP has is not Trump, it's the Trump supporters. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 20, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683 "2015-07-20T11:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/81 "2015-07-21T17:20:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **doorhinge** , if you can show me one, just one, politician who’s cracking down on Canadians staying past the term of their visa, then I’ll concede that there’s a non-racist element to this whole immigration brouhaha. Because those guys are illegal immigrants too, right? You mean that the media outlets haven’t chosen to report on illegal aliens from Canada, or Ireland, or China? I’m shocked. :rolleyes: There is a difference between LEGAL immigrants, those who abide by the immigration laws of the U.S., and ILLEGAL immigrants who’s first act is to violate the laws of the U.S… No 1st world country allows ILLEGAL immigration. Why should the U.S. allow ILLEGAL immigration? When the illegal alien, Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez, first illegally entered the U.S. he was a lawbreaker. The fifth time he illegally entered the U.S., he was a 7-time felon, a criminal. He chose to, once again, return to the sanctuary city of SF. Why? Because they protect criminal illegal aliens like him. The sheriff claims it makes the city safer??? The policy certainly didn’t make Kathryn Steinle safer. She was shot in the back by an illegal alien who should never have been allowed into the U.S… ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/82 "2015-07-21T17:31:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Number One, baby!](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-trump-surges-to-big-lead-in-gop-presidential-race/2015/07/20/efd2e0d0-2ef8-11e5-8f36-18d1d501920d_story.html?wpisrc=nl_p1most&wpmm=1) Unfortunately, his support dropped to single digits in the Sunday portion of that survey. (He was up at around 28 percent in the majority of it, as crazy as that sounds.) I’m crossing my fingers and hoping for a rebound. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/83 "2015-07-21T17:53:27Z")
I think the key point is that Trump has shown that the surefire vote-getter for the Republicans is Mexican-bashing. The fast way to stand out from the rest of the short-bus riders is to dive into that cesspool, and don’t think they don’t all know it. But ¡Jeb! is the only one who cannot, and therefore won’t. That may make him this year’s Electable Sane Guy, like McCain and Romney vs. a pack of hyenas the last couple of times. It also makes him the answer to a future trivia question, but one thing at a time. And meanwhile, Hillary can tut-tut and my-goodness right ahead of all of it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/84 "2015-07-21T18:02:33Z")
Well said! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/85 "2015-07-21T19:40:22Z")
I hate to keep disillusioning you guys, but Trump isn’t going anywhere. He’s already maxed out, and CAN’T increase his voter share any more. His negatives are extremely high, which means there’s absolutely no way he can appeal to voters who don’t already love him. And even the people who THINK they love him won’t stick with him any longer than they stuck with Herman Cain 4 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/86 "2015-07-21T20:03:59Z")
But if he were to get five percent as a third party general election candidate, that would completely doom the GOP nominee. Heck, even two or three percent in swing states would hurt, bigtime. (I think they are already doomed; but this would provide extra doom, LOL.) ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/87 "2015-07-21T20:04:11Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I hate to keep disillusioning you guys, but Trump isn’t going anywhere. He’s already maxed out, and CAN’T increase his voter share any more. His negatives are extremely high, which means there’s absolutely no way he can appeal to voters who don’t already love him. > > And even the people who THINK they love him won’t stick with him any longer than they stuck with Herman Cain 4 years ago. He only needs like 20% in this field though, doesn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/88 "2015-07-21T21:51:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **doorhinge** : > > There is a difference between LEGAL immigrants, those who abide by the immigration laws of the U.S., and ILLEGAL immigrants who’s first act is to violate the laws of the U.S… So, again, what about those illegal immigrants from places other than Latin America? They are breaking the laws of the US just as surely as Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez is. And again, where is the outcry, from any politician (I never mentioned the media; that was all you) whatsoever? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/89 "2015-07-21T22:30:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The problem **America** has is the Trump supporters. From the other side of the aisle I can’t help but fully agree. I can live with a small chunk of his probable poll numbers. His statements are usually disjointed, internally inconsistent, and borderline incoherent when looked at in their entirety. I can see some just responding to him on the context of being aggressive against the establishment. That’s a more minor problem. The one’s that actually agree with the main body of what he’s most likely saying… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/90 "2015-07-21T22:38:47Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I hate to keep disillusioning you guys, but Trump isn’t going anywhere. He’s already maxed out, and CAN’T increase his voter share any more. His negatives are extremely high, which means there’s absolutely no way he can appeal to voters who don’t already love him. No Trump won’t be nominated. But he provides evidence for moderates of the soaring level of crazy within the Republican electorate. Which is why I treat his candidacy with glee. Same with Ted Cruz. More evidence for your POV: Overwhelming IMHO: [Why Donald Trump Isn’t A Real Candidate, In One Chart | FiveThirtyEight](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/why-donald-trump-isnt-a-real-candidate-in-one-chart/) More: [Two Good Reasons Not To Take The Donald Trump ‘Surge’ Seriously | FiveThirtyEight](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/two-good-reasons-not-to-take-the-donald-trump-surge-seriously/) The Donald is a troll, the best and glitziest: [Donald Trump Is The World’s Greatest Troll | FiveThirtyEight](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-the-worlds-greatest-troll/) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/91 "2015-07-21T22:57:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, again, what about those illegal immigrants from places other than Latin America? They are breaking the laws of the US just as surely as Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez is. And again, where is the outcry, from any politician (I never mentioned the media; that was all you) whatsoever? I see you’ve altered your question to drop references to overstayed visas and immigrants specifically coming from Canada, but since it’s essentially the same question as before, given that we don’t seem to have many people flooding into the country illegally over the Atlantic and Pacific coastlines, I’ll repost the answer from post 67 since you seem to have missed it: > [@](#): > > Overstaying a visa is not quite the same as skulking across the border in dead of night or packed inside an 18-wheeler. > > For one thing, people here on a visa have generally been vetted for criminal history, employment or training while here, and so forth, and are therefore regarded as much less likely to pose a criminal threat or wind up in need of taxpayer assistance. > > Canada doesn’t seem to have much in the way of vicious drug cartels seeking to expand their territory either, so there’s less concern over drug cartels and their concomitant brutality when it comes to Canadians as well. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/92 "2015-07-21T23:00:43Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The media reports what they chose to report. The media has decided to currently report every word Trump says. Their choice. > > Unless you’re suggesting that CNN or MSNBC/DNC has a George Stephanopoulos-style insider working for the GOP??? > > You might want to try publically holding the media outlets to a higher standard than they currently hold. just sayin’ Do, you want the LSM to censor Trump? Not report newsworthy things he’s saying? Why? Because it is embarrassing? Don’t you think his backers would have a fit? If one of the other 17 clowns would say something interesting, they’d get covered too. But newspapers are too think to cover all of them. And I guess most of them are too boring and irrelevant for even the 24-hour news stations to cover. They did get some coverage when they announced. Are you mad at the Republicans for limiting debate participants also? Mad bombers get coverage, and Trump is the Mad Bomber in the Republican field. I have considered that he could be a Democrat in disguise - the Dems could hardly dream of someone wrecking the Republican brand better than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/93 "2015-07-21T23:05:19Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I hate to keep disillusioning you guys, but Trump isn’t going anywhere. He’s already maxed out, and CAN’T increase his voter share any more. His negatives are extremely high, which means there’s absolutely no way he can appeal to voters who don’t already love him. > > And even the people who THINK they love him won’t stick with him any longer than they stuck with Herman Cain 4 years ago. Negatives to you and me and in the general are positives in the Republican nomination race. If he were a normal candidate he wouldn’t be getting any money and would dry up, but he doesn’t need any money, at least to start. I don’t think Cain was ever that serious. He slipped into doing skits for TDS way too easily. Trump is serious. Crazy, but serious. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/94 "2015-07-22T00:17:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You mean that the media outlets haven’t chosen to report on illegal aliens from Canada, or Ireland, or China? I’m shocked. :rolleyes: > > There is a difference between LEGAL immigrants, those who abide by the immigration laws of the U.S., and ILLEGAL immigrants who’s first act is to violate the laws of the U.S… > > No 1st world country allows ILLEGAL immigration. Why should the U.S. allow ILLEGAL immigration? > > When the illegal alien, Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez, first illegally entered the U.S. he was a lawbreaker. The fifth time he illegally entered the U.S., he was a 7-time felon, a criminal. He chose to, once again, return to the sanctuary city of SF. Why? Because they protect criminal illegal aliens like him. The sheriff claims it makes the city safer??? The policy certainly didn’t make Kathryn Steinle safer. She was shot in the back by an illegal alien who should never have been allowed into the U.S… > [@Chronos](#): > > So, again, what about those illegal immigrants from places other than Latin America? They are breaking the laws of the US just as surely as Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez is. And again, where is the outcry, from any politician (I never mentioned the media; that was all you) whatsoever? Hahahaha. Do you check your elected representatives website(s), or call their office(s) for information? Or do you wait for the media outlets to tell you what your elected representatives positions are? LEGAL aliens are welcome. ILLEGAL aliens are not welcome and should be sent home. Criminals entering the U.S. as ILLEGAL aliens should be jailed. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/95 "2015-07-22T00:20:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do, you want the LSM to censor Trump? Not report newsworthy things he’s saying? (post shortened) I never said they should censor Trump. I would prefer that the LSM not censor the other candidates. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/96 "2015-07-22T00:33:14Z")
As a lifelong Democrat I will admit that my position is definitely informed by my party affiliation and by Latinos’ voting tendencies. If the immigrants coming in here undocumented were giving birth to children who became overwhelmingly Republican voters, like used to be true for Cubans, I would be agitating to build a better wall, LOL. So I don’t blame Republicans for feeling alarmed and frustrated about this. Now, obviously I don’t want my Democratic politicians to say anything like this - in fact if they are asked, they should vigorously deny any such motivations or inconsistency in philosophy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/97 "2015-07-22T01:21:59Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > He only needs like 20% in this field though, doesn’t he? Heck no. In a super crowded field, IF he held the 24% he supposedly has (and he won’t), that would be enough to win him a few primaries. But as soon as the also-rans start dropping out, SOMEONE is going to pick up the Jindal vote, the Kasich vote, the Huckabee vote, et al. Trump is not the guy to win those votes. Neither is Jeb. The conservative wing will eventually coalesce around someone who’s now trailing. Walker, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/98 "2015-07-22T06:38:51Z")
To buttress my argument about not wanting racist votes, here’s an interesting poll showing a race between Clinton and Bush, and one showing Clinton vs. Bush vs. Trump. [http://www.pollingreport.com/wh16gen.htm](http://www.pollingreport.com/wh16gen.htm) As you’d expect, Trump takes the vast majority of votes from Bush. But Clinton also loses some support in the 3-way, going from 50% to 46%. Now imagine Hillary Clinton saying that she didn’t want the votes of people considering voting for her but who would prefer to vote for Donald Trump. It’s the difference between 50% and 46%. That’s the difference between victory and defeat in a two person race. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/99 "2015-07-22T08:22:13Z")
adaher, I think your advice to politicians to not piss off vast swaths of the voting public is stronger than your argument about the principles of representative democracy. Also, by adding the qualification, “…unless the group is so small as to not be relevant,” I’ve been stymied. Counter examples are FDR going against the monied interest (electorally small), GHWBush thumbing his nose at atheists (electorally non-trivial, though he probably didn’t recognize that while improvising, assuming the event happened: [it may or may not have](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=336611)) and the David Duke example (naming a person, and not a block of voters). I got nothin’. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683/100 "2015-07-22T08:28:16Z")
Insulting people happens all the time. Bush never said he didn’t want the atheist vote. And I guess we agree that’s bad politics. I just go a little further and say it’s anti-democratic. Saying you don’t want a vote, IMO, is equivalent to saying that certain people just shouldn’t vote at all. Especially if all the candidates tacitly agree that they don’t want a certain group’s votes. See what I’m saying? Clinton says she doesn’t want racist votes. Bush says he doesn’t want racist votes. The implication is that racists just shouldn’t vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-the-gop-has-is-not-trump-its-the-trump-supporters/725683.md?page=6)