The problem with "Lost" wasn't the finale, it was the entire show

Although I never watched Lost, I view stories like that from a “quantum mechanical” viewpoint.

Let me explain: if a show or a movie goes way off the rails in the middle, I am willing to give them a chance to pull it all back together. The suckitude in the middle might not actually suck, when we know how it fits with the ending, so it’s ‘quantum waveform’ has not collapsed yet. If the end successfully pulls it all together, then the middle DIDN’T suck, and the movie’s quantum suckitude equation collapses instead into a good movie. And it was a good movie all the way through.

But, in the case of Lost, or Twin Peaks, the ‘waveform’ instead collapsed into major suck, retroactively making all the previous episodes bad.

So while I agree with the OP about the reasons for the failure of Lost, in my view, it still is the last episode’s fault.

On the up-sde, Lost stands as a warning to never have anything to do with anything Lindelof or Abrams is involved with. Ever.

I gave up on Lost after the first three episodes, and admit that I felt a little smug when I heard that it turned out as it did.

Well said. I loved Twin Peaks early on, but it went badly awry. And to have ended that way for Agent Cooper! Argh. Still pisses me off.

I agree with the OP. There are some works that are completely defined by their ending. You can watch the work as it’s going on and not know if it’s good or bad. Everything you’re seeing is just the set-up and it’s only when you see the pay-off that you know whether or not the work succeeds. And if the pay-off fails then the work as a whole fails.

The thing is, Lost basically did go to limited-run with three seasons left. In 2007, the network gave the producers a specific end-date. So they could have planned the story out much better from that point on, but they failed to do so.

Not that this makes the show any better, but I don’t think the producers had such bad intentions early on. Yes, they lied and said they had a cohesive overarching explanation in mind for everything, when they didn’t. However, I think they though they could come up with one. They were telling themselves, “hey, we’ve got time; sometime in the next few seasons we’ll dream up an explanatory backstory that ties together all these mysteries we’ve created.” But as time went on, they found they’d painted themselves into a corner with all those mysteries, and couldn’t think of any cohesive way to explain them all.

I though the show smelled like a bad ending waiting to happen, so I didn’t go very far into it. I can’t criticize the whole series since I didn’t watch it, but the reactions of people to the finale confirm my suspicions about the end.

Let’s put it this way. I’ve seen every episode except the last one. I knew that it was going to be horseshit, and that the wool had ben pulled over my eyes. I have no idea how it actually ended, but I’m sure I wouldn’t have been happy.

I totally agree with the OP. From the very first episode, we were shown things that didn’t make any sense. Being humans, we expected these mysteries to be explained in some later episode. The mysteries kept happening, and we kept watching, and the sponsors kept paying. And from the very beginning many of us were saying that there was no way to explain it and neatly tie up the series. And many of us suggested that the island was some kind of purgatory . . . and believed the writers when they said it was not. It’s as if Sawyer had choreographed the entire story and hoodwinked us in every episode. In short, they made fools of us all, and they’re laughing all the way to the bank.

I can’t agree more with the OP.

In fact… I never even watched the last half of the last season. I went through that same scenario the OP describes - thinking that now, finally they’d answer something. No… now, finally. No… now. And then by halfway through the last season it was so obvious that they were in it so deep that they were just going to keep shoveling and hope we didn’t notice.

Where are you guys every time I get dogpiled for suggesting that J.J. Abrams is one of the worst writer-director-producer getting work today?

Let’s compare and contrast with another writer-director-producer who also works in the fantasy/science fiction/action genre and enjoys sprawling story arcs, characters with hidden motivations, and conspiracies. Yes, I’m going to bring Joss Whedon into the discussion. Like Abrams, Whedon enjoys delving into conspiracy, betrayal, banter, and not just a few ass-kicking female characters. But whereas for Abrams the story and characters are just an excuse to string together one action scene to another with plenty of camera flares thrown in to disoreint the viewer and distract from the fact that the story fundamentally makes no sense and the characters exist solely to justify otherwise completely absurd plotholes (like how to get Kirk from the surface of a frozen moon to the Enterprise flying away at Warp whatever at several lightyears distance using a capability that, were it actually to exist, would completely disrupt the entire technology of the Star Trek universe), for Whedon the characters exist on their own, with backstories and motivations which define how they respond to plot developments.

When Jayne betrays Simon and River in Firefly, it isn’t just to create a conflict for the sake of giving the characters a new challenge; it is because Jayne is a fundamentally untrustworthy individual who thinks everyone else is just as much out for profit as he is. In learning that this isn’t the case, the character makes a fundamental pivot of motivation which still doesn’t change the fact that he’s an asshole, but he turns into the kind of asshole who you might be able to trust in a fight not to stab you in the back.

In Star Trek Into Darkness, Abrams takes establish characters and the (very rough) outline of a story which was originally written to develop and explore the consequences of Kirk’s oft-irresponsible behavior and regret at what he failed to do, and turns it into an absurd action setpiece with zero chararacter depth designed to appeal to prepubescent boys. (Okay, he threw in the boobage shot to appeal to post-pubescent boys.) Even the twist at the end, swapping Spock’s sacrifice in the original for Kirk’s in the remale was rendered completely impotent by reversing it within a couple of pages, again by imagining a big action setpiece.

By contrast, In The Avengers, Whedon uses the superheroes distrust of S.H.I.E.L.D. and each other to forment most of the conflict. The villian, albeit played to the hilt by Tom Hiddleston, is almost irrelevant; the real challenge is getting the characters to work with one another, and the payoff is in the extremely well-orchastrated and cogent action setpiece in the Battle of New York, which included exactly zero lens flares and still managed to be visceral and satisfying, as well as appropriately comedic. (“Puny god!”) For Whedon, the action scenes are a nice to have, but as good as they are, the best scenes are those where the characters are interacting; the Widow “confessing” her sins to Loki in order to extract his motivations; the characters arguing in the lab; Banner roilling in just in time to “suit up”. In the hands of a director like Abrams this entire movie would have been an incoherent snoozefest.

As for Lost, I detected the distinct smell of shit about a third of the way into the first series when it was apparent that they were just piling on the mysteries that could in no way be legitimately linked together. The only saving grace was the intentional “red-shirting” of the science teacher in the last episode (and Evangeline Lily in her underwear, of course), which in no way made up for the layers of bullshit that they laided down season after season. I am in complete agreeement with the o.p.; the show was “lost” the moment they just started cramming in mysteries and cliffhangers with no idea of how they were ever going to tie them together or explain them, which as far as I can tell was right after the pilot pitch was accepted.

Stranger

Side question that might clarify things: could you have written a final episode that would have redeemed the series? (And if so, please give a synopsis.)

I’m not pointing the finger as if to say, “Well YOU couldn’t do any better, ha ha,” but to determine whether there even was a way in which all the seemingly nonsensical threads could be woven (or at least tied off) into something coherent.

I think this could have made an ok final episode.

So if the final episode is just, “These are just petty gods who like to be dicks and they did all the magic/mystery stuff for funsies.” But people would still be pissed about it because of all the stuff the producers said about it not being magic and there would be scientific explanations.

Really though it would take a whole carefully crafted final season to wrap it up nicely.

The Matrix also victimized us.

I agree with the OP, which is why I stopped watching during season 3 when Sawyer and Freckles where in the bear cages. It became apparent to me then the writers had no overall story arc whatsoever and I was wasting my time.

EXACTLY where I stopped watching.

I recently binge-watched Season 1 again, just to remember how fun it was the first time around. Just watched Season 2 Ep. 1 and 2…I think I’m done again.

Yes, the finale was the icing on the cake, but it was the final season that really sunk the show - I had hopes through the first third as they kept dropping tantalizing tidbits, but ultimately they amounted to yet more window dressing. Perhaps the biggest sin was that if it was really supposed to be all about the characters ( as was often claimed by the writers after the show ended ), they kinda dropped the ball on that one as well. Most of the character development in the final season was incoherent and not nearly as affecting as what had come before.

I think SenorBeef’s argument is perfectly reasonable, but of course it is only apparent in retrospect ;). Despite any pre-show or mounting skepticism, at the end of the day you have to have the completed whole to judge the failure. So the finale ( and particularly the last season ) is the nail in the coffin.

I still don’t mind the time I spent watching it. I was entertained. Mostly what it kills for me is re-watching. I haven’t tried and I dunno that I will despite owning the DVDs ( bad purchase decision on my part ).

When I say that Lost was pretty good until the final episode ruined it, what I mean just is that it kept me watching in anticipation of a resolution of the various threads, until in the final episode I learned with certainty that they’d been dicking around with us the whole time.

I don’t know about doing it in a single final episode, but I remember thinking about what I’d have done with the last season as a whole. It’s been a while, so I’m vague on the details, but basically I’d have gone with some kind of wormhole anchored on the island as an explanation for most of the weirdness going on. You kind of have to do something like that to explain the time travel and alternate universes.

So my last season would be the realization that it’s a wormhole, and then learning how to manipulate the wormhole to escape or otherwise live happily ever after. (Throw in lots of fancy sciencey words too - they could be collapsing the quantum space-time waveform string to span the Einstein-Rosen bridge with FTL monopoles. Audiences eat that stuff up. Tie it back into the button from season 2 somehow.)

Or just invoke “red matter” to explain all plot loopholes.

Stranger

I agree with the overall premise that the show was doomed from the beginning in the sense that the overall story was never going to be coherent. I still think though that this just means the last episode/season was poor, rather than the show as a whole. I don’t know if a finale could’ve been written to redeem the overall plot of the show, but certainly the last few episodes (or all of season 6) could have been. If you fired all the writers at the end of S5 and let Joss or someone write the last year, it could have at least been decent.

Take the Walkabout episode for example. That’s a great episode of TV, and that is completely independent of whether the writers have any idea about the larger story it’s part of. The fact that the series went off the rails 5 years later doesn’t change the fact that I was very entertained when Walkabout aired.