# The Problem with Planes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244 "2011-06-21T03:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/341 "2011-06-23T01:29:02Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > So in other words, and this is just the plain fact, anywhere from 3x to 6x as long as it would take an able-bodied person? > > How much slower than you would a typical paraplegic be, do you think? Remember, for aircraft weight considerations, we have space for one solution on most jets. Huh? I don’t even know how to reply to this. And that “typical” para could still have all the standard buckles and straps available. GOT It??? And read my last post. (and I said “no longer” than 30 sec). I can get from the floor to my wheelchair, unassisted, in less than 10sec. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/342 "2011-06-23T01:30:22Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > That sounds like an opinion from someone “in the know”. Can you elaborate? Or was that just a “parting shot” before bed? And you are right, I have a preference to be treated like an adult. Guilty. What preferences do other disabled individuals have regarding their treatment on airlines that are comparable? I’m seriously asking. I too like to be treated like an adult. I have \*\*always \*\*been treated like an adult when I have been taken up and down aisles and in and out of aircraft in an aisle chair. I’ll accept that I wasn’t qualified to make the comment that airlines would go bankrupt just by modifying planes to fit all the preferences of the disabled since I don’t have the numbers. My apologies (I really was getting ready for bed). They do however run on tight profit margins (as evidenced by the number of airlines that have gone bankrupt). That said, what percentage of the disabled would you say would both be able to take advantage of what you are proposing **and** be particularly concerned at not having it? Should modifications be made to aircraft seating (and washrooms) for the morbidly obese? What about the blind (maybe some of them feel it is demeaning to get help to find their seat or the washroom)? Perhaps I would like to be seated in one of the rows by the emergency exits (since there is more room) - as I understand it that is against the rules since I am disabled. Again, you want your preferences met (and even at that you can avoid the issue by alternatives that have already been discussed). Your needs are \*\*already \*\*being met. You also seem to have an exaggerated sense of what being treated “like an adult” means. I still fail to see why being strapped into an aisle chair and pulled a short distance by someone else (as opposed to propelling yourself to the same place in some sort of modified chair) is so demeaning. You are going to the same place; everyone near you knows you are going to the same place. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/343 "2011-06-23T01:34:25Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Well, I’m not going to space and I’m not a geriatric. What demographic do you think makes up those “thousands of folks” that use them? Do you use them? I’m not wearing a fucking diaper. But thanks for the tip. Why don’t u use them? I do sometimes, and I’m not geriatric. Also, that is not the only solution, as has already been explained. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/344 "2011-06-23T01:34:46Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > I too like to be treated like an adult. I have \*\*always \*\*been treated like an adult when I have been taken up and down aisles and in and out of aircraft in an aisle chair. > > I’ll accept that I wasn’t qualified to make the comment that airlines would go bankrupt just by modifying planes to fit all the preferences of the disabled since I don’t have the numbers. My apologies (I really was getting ready for bed). They do however run on tight profit margins (as evidenced by the number of airlines that have gone bankrupt). > > That said, what percentage of the disabled would you say would both be able to take advantage of what you are proposing **and** be particularly concerned at not having it? Should modifications be made to aircraft seating (and washrooms) for the morbidly obese? What about the blind (maybe some of them feel it is demeaning to get help to find their seat or the washroom)? Perhaps I would like to be seated in one of the rows by the emergency exits (since there is more room) - as I understand it that is against the rules since I am disabled. > > Again, you want your preferences met (and even at that you can avoid the issue by alternatives that have already been discussed). Your needs are \*\*already \*\*being met. > > You also seem to have an exaggerated sense of what being treated “like an adult” means. I still fail to see why being strapped into an aisle chair and pulled a short distance by someone else (as opposed to propelling yourself to the same place in some sort of modified chair) is so demeaning. You are going to the same place; everyone near you knows you are going to the same place. I’m not after a total renovation of the airline industry. And I don’t consider the obese to be “disabled”. I’m sorry, I don’t. If you have a medical condition that RESULTS in that obesity, that’s a different story, but obesity, by itself, is just being fat. And I feel like I keep going around in circles trying to explain this over and over, so Im done. I’m sorry I cant satify you here but just go back and read the entire thread and you will find your answer. Oh, and one thing I am confused about; on every flight I have ever been on, I have been in my actual wheelchair until I got RIGHT UP to the plane itself. You keep saying you were transported in and out of the plane itself in an “aisle chair”. I dont get this. It’s called an “aisle” chair for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/345 "2011-06-23T01:34:49Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > You are effin ridiculous, how long do you think it would take for the attendant to move the drink cart down the length of the aisle? Or the old lady who is hobbling down the aisle to get to her seat? Huh? I’d say longer than 30 seconds. Well, let’s see, 30 seconds for you to get back into the chair after you’ve fallen out, PLUS the time to continue wheeling you along… and you’re still more of a blockage. It sucks to be you, and all, but the accommodations you’re demanding are not reasonable, and if a frequent need to visit the bathroom is self-inflicted, then I still have no sympathy. …raNDOm cAPItalizAtion INterlUDe… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/346 "2011-06-23T01:36:14Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Dead weight? You know absolutely NOTHING about my ability to get myself up and off the ground when and if an accident occurs. I’d put the time it takes at no more than 30 seconds. Are you going for the record for offensive remarks made, DUDE? And secondly, I weigh much less than you are assuming I do. 🆒 This is the problem. It is entirely unreasonable for you to expect a solution to be implemented that takes into account ONLY YOUR SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES. For you to be taken seriously, you have to show why A SIGNIFICANTLY LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU should be the basis for A COMPLETELY SEPARATE SOLUTION to the issue of wheelchair users on airplanes and how that would be economically practical. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/347 "2011-06-23T01:38:22Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This is the problem. It is entirely unreasonable for you to expect a solution to be implemented that takes into account ONLY YOUR SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES. For you to be taken seriously, you have to show why A SIGNIFICANTLY LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU should be the basis for A COMPLETELY SEPARATE SOLUTION to the issue of wheelchair users on airplanes and how that would be economically practical. That’s why I suggested having a legal waiver available to sign. What I am proposing would basically have no, or minimal, economic impact on the industry ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/348 "2011-06-23T01:39:22Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > I do sometimes, and I’m not geriatric. Also, that is not the only solution, as has already been explained. did I say it was the only solution? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/349 "2011-06-23T01:40:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, let’s see, 30 seconds for you to get back into the chair after you’ve fallen out, PLUS the time to continue wheeling you along… and you’re still more of a blockage. > > It sucks to be you, and all, but the accommodations you’re demanding are not reasonable, and if a frequent need to visit the bathroom is self-inflicted, then I still have no sympathy. > …raNDOm cAPItalizAtion INterlUDe… Well, I guess were going to have to respectfully (at least on MY end) disagree Mr. Ekers. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/350 "2011-06-23T01:47:31Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I’m not after a total renovation of the airline industry. And I don’t consider the obese to be “disabled”. I’m sorry, I don’t. If you have a medical condition that RESULTS in that obesity, that’s a different story, but obesity, by itself, is just being fat. And I feel like I keep going around in circles trying to explain this over and over, so Im done. I’m sorry I cant satify you here but just go back and read the entire thread and you will find your answer. Oh, and one thing I am confused about; on every flight I have ever been on, I have been in my actual wheelchair until I got RIGHT UP to the plane itself. You keep saying you were transported in and out of the plane itself in an “aisle chair”. I dont get this. It’s called an “aisle” chair for a reason. I’ll bow out as well since you clearly aren’t accepting what everyone is saying. However, in answer to your question - If you have flown a significant number of times I am quite surprised you have **never** been taken to/from the gate in one (or did you just scream bloody murder if they wanted to do that). It is unusual, but it \*\*does \*\*happen. My comments a while back about where I have been taken (and left) in an aisle chair were the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/351 "2011-06-23T01:48:15Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Dead weight? You know absolutely NOTHING about my ability to get myself up and off the ground when and if an accident occurs. I’d put the time it takes at no more than 30 seconds. Are you going for the record for offensive remarks made, DUDE? And secondly, I weigh much less than you are assuming I do. 🆒 Wow. What part of, “the world doesn’t revolve around you” needs explaining? Seriously. You expect the airline to make a custom seat to make you happy and ignore all the other people who need transport to the bathroom? And yes, you are dead weight in an emergency. half of your navigating body parts don’t work and when you start bouncing all over the cabin that will become evident. And this ignores everything else that has been mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/352 "2011-06-23T01:48:43Z")
Hey, you don’t want to be coddled, that’s fine. But you’re on a damn airplane. A bit of coddling is the price you’ll pay for the privilege of being able to travel at 600 mph. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/353 "2011-06-23T01:48:46Z")
Just to clarify, what exactly do the straps entail? I’m envisioning a racing-style harness, which isn’t exactly onerous, but is there more to it than that? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/354 "2011-06-23T01:53:35Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > Just to clarify, what exactly do the straps entail? I’m envisioning a racing-style harness, which isn’t exactly onerous, but is there more to it than that? Apparently whatever it is, it’s so humiliating that your soul dies a little every time you wear it. I assume some kind of buttplug is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/355 "2011-06-23T02:04:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Apparently whatever it is, it’s so humiliating that your soul dies a little every time you wear it. I assume some kind of buttplug is involved. Nothing like having to pee at 8,000 feet in the right seat of a 2-seater. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/356 "2011-06-23T02:06:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Apparently whatever it is, it’s so humiliating that your soul dies a little every time you wear it. I assume some kind of buttplug is involved. You’re an asshole. I dont care if it gets me banned. You get your jollies taking pokes at ppl from behind the screen. You’re a small man. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/357 "2011-06-23T02:11:48Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > You’re an asshole. I dont care if it gets me banned. You get your jollies taking pokes at ppl from behind the screen. You’re a small man. Hey, I could probably fake up some condescending sympathy for you. Would you prefer that? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/358 "2011-06-23T02:17:58Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > You’re an asshole. I dont care if it gets me banned. You get your jollies taking pokes at ppl from behind the screen. You’re a small man. You gotta look at it this way: None of us understand how “two shoulder straps” is all that particularly humiliating. You’re not making it terribly clear why this is a problem. And honestly, the idea of not being pushed is entirely a mechanical engineering question–if it can be done to make it self-propelled without interfering with its function regarding the vast majority of handicapped passengers, then find an engineer to design it and get to it. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/359 "2011-06-23T02:32:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, I could probably fake up some condescending sympathy for you. Would you prefer that? No but you still don’t have to be a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/360 "2011-06-23T02:34:24Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You gotta look at it this way: None of us understand how “two shoulder straps” is all that particularly humiliating. You’re not making it terribly clear why this is a problem. > > And honestly, the idea of not being pushed is entirely a mechanical engineering question–if it can be done to make it self-propelled without interfering with its function regarding the vast majority of handicapped passengers, then find an engineer to design it and get to it. At this point, if I haven’t made my issues clear then it’s a moot point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244.md?page=19)