# The Problem with Planes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244 "2011-06-21T03:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/381 "2011-06-23T17:26:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Do you think that it is a ‘reasonable accommodation’ for every airline to remove an aisle of seats on all of their aircraft in order to accommodate people in wheelchairs? This has been brought up several times, but I still haven’t seen a response. To prevent the ‘parading’ down the aisle, or removing an entire aisle of seats, would it be a ‘reasonable accommodation’ to reserve the seats closest to the lavs. for those in the OP’s situation? If the chair was needed at all, it would be for a very short trip, with few other passengers even aware of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/382 "2011-06-23T17:29:58Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > To prevent the ‘parading’ down the aisle, or removing an entire aisle of seats, would it be a ‘reasonable accommodation’ to reserve the seats closest to the lavs. for those in the OP’s situation? If the chair was needed at all, it would be for a very short trip, with few other passengers even aware of the situation. Someone – it may have been **Rick** – asked: What if there are more disabled people on the plane than there are available seats near the lav? (Not that there are usually that many disabled passengers on a flight, but it does happen.) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/383 "2011-06-23T17:41:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Someone – it may have been **Rick** – asked: What if there are more disabled people on the plane than there are available seats near the lav? (Not that there are usually that many disabled passengers on a flight, but it does happen.) Near is kind of relative isn’t it? If they don’t fit in the closest seat, seat them in the next closest seat. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/384 "2011-06-23T21:05:32Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > No problem. The remote control device will have a reverse mode. All you need are helmets with rear-view mirrors on either side and, perhaps, a simple beeping device to warn pedestrians that The Chair is in reverse. If necessary, flight attendants could be trained to say, “'Mon back” with appropriate hand gestures. > . Okay – this is cracking me the hell up! Wearing a helmet with mirrors, a backup alarm and a flight attendent guiding you back could possibly be less emabarassing than having someone push you to the head? I’m pretty sure I’d go with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/385 "2011-06-23T21:13:15Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Since the OP’s main issue with the current policy seems to be one of perception, what if the flight attendant were required to make an pre-flight announcement, such as: > > “Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Icarus Airlines. We’re fortunate to have a _special guest_ flying with us today… there he is! Mr. McGarry is a prizewinning competitive bodybuilder, who is _required by law_ to use this airline-provided aisle chair when he makes his trips to the bathroom, which you may notice is happening quite often, because of his need to hydrate. Now, don’t be fooled: Mr. McGarry is more than capable of dragging himself to the bathroom under his own power, and in fact is blessed with more upper body strength than probably anyone else on this plane… so don’t try to steal his peanuts! Heh heh… only kidding. We hope you all have a pleasant flight. After our flight lands in Los Angeles, Mr. MrGarry will provide a brief demonstration of his physical prowess, performing several amazing FEATS OF STRENGTH in the baggage claim area, lastly through a hogshead of REAL FIRE. All passengers are invited to attend…” I’ll message you my address, you can mail me some tickets to your next stand-up gig. ---
**Author:** ![Rain\_Soaked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rain\_Soaked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rain_Soaked)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/386 "2011-06-23T21:36:18Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Since the OP’s main issue with the current policy seems to be one of perception, what if the flight attendant were required to make an pre-flight announcement, such as: > > “Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Icarus Airlines. We’re fortunate to have a _special guest_ flying with us today… there he is! Mr. McGarry is a prizewinning competitive bodybuilder, who is _required by law_ to use this airline-provided aisle chair when he makes his trips to the bathroom, which you may notice is happening quite often, because of his need to hydrate. Now, don’t be fooled: Mr. McGarry is more than capable of dragging himself to the bathroom under his own power, and in fact is blessed with more upper body strength than probably anyone else on this plane… so don’t try to steal his peanuts! Heh heh… only kidding. We hope you all have a pleasant flight. After our flight lands in Los Angeles, Mr. MrGarry will provide a brief demonstration of his physical prowess, performing several amazing FEATS OF STRENGTH in the baggage claim area, lastly through a hogshead of REAL FIRE. All passengers are invited to attend…” I’m only going if the Henderson’s are going to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/387 "2011-06-23T21:41:33Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I’ll message you my address, you can mail me some tickets to your next stand-up gig. Any response to the questions in post #374? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/388 "2011-06-23T21:42:34Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I’ll message you my address, you can mail me some tickets to your next stand-up gig. If you stick around you’ll enjoy his comments. He cracks me up.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/389 "2011-06-23T22:11:16Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Dead weight? You know absolutely NOTHING about my ability to get myself up and off the ground when and if an accident occurs. I’d put the time it takes at no more than 30 seconds. Are you going for the record for offensive remarks made, DUDE? And secondly, I weigh much less than you are assuming I do. 🆒 In an airplane emergency, 30 seconds is probably an eternity. How much do you mass? You seem to be a weightlifter, so I assume your upper body is quite muscular – by which I mean dense. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/390 "2011-06-23T22:21:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But do you accept what **mnemosyne** wrote? > Do you now see the problems involved in what you ask for, and do you see how the airlines are limited in what they can do? Do you see why the attendants have to have a standard policy when it comes to transporting the handicapped down the aisle? I was commenting on the humane nature of her reply. She did not sway my opinions on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/391 "2011-06-23T22:46:57Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I was commenting on the humane nature of her reply. She did not sway my opinions on the matter. So basically it doesn’t matter _how_ we address you, right? Are you saying that you dispute what was so politely written, or that you don’t _care_ about what was so politely written? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/392 "2011-06-23T22:53:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So basically it doesn’t matter _how_ we address you, right? Are you saying that you dispute what was so politely written, or that you don’t _care_ about what was so politely written? Ugh, she didn’t say anything NEW. I will say this, though. As this thread has progressed, my view on the matter has evolved ever so slightly. Evolved to reflect the reality of the matter. Now that’s not to say I’ll just grin and bear it and accept things the way they are, but it does mean that I need to work within the framework of the possible. I still believe, despite what you or others may proclaim, that a level of self-respect and dignity can be restored to the aisle-chair situation, through things such as modifications, seat-belt waivers (or something), etc. This thread and this message board as a whole has been beneficial in that manner. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/393 "2011-06-23T22:57:49Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In an airplane emergency, 30 seconds is probably an eternity. > > How much do you mass? You seem to be a weightlifter, so I assume your upper body is quite muscular – by which I mean dense. I used 30sec as the outer limit, absolutely the longest it would take under any circumstances. If I were to take myself out of my chair onto the floor right now, I could get back into my chair in 3-4sec. When I not dieting for a competition, I weigh 120lb. When I’m dieted down, I can weigh as little as 108lbs. That low weight is due to the extreme atrophy of my lower body. I have a somewhat rare type of spinal cord injury, one which has left me with several distinguishing characteristics; one of which is EXTREMELY skinny, light legs. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/394 "2011-06-23T23:26:18Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I used 30sec as the outer limit, absolutely the longest it would take under any circumstances. If I were to take myself out of my chair onto the floor right now, I could get back into my chair in 3-4sec. When I not dieting for a competition, I weigh 120lb. When I’m dieted down, I can weigh as little as 108lbs. That low weight is due to the extreme atrophy of my lower body. I have a somewhat rare type of spinal cord injury, one which has left me with several distinguishing characteristics; one of which is EXTREMELY skinny, light legs. I am a large and burly person. I can and have carried a person of your weight around with little real difficulty. But most people cannot. Also, I expect that, in the above estimate, you are not allowing for the fact that an aerial emergency is going to involve pitching, yawing, and that other plane motion I can never remember. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/395 "2011-06-23T23:32:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > pitching, yawing, and that other plane motion I can never remember. Rolling! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/396 "2011-06-23T23:32:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am a large and burly person. I can and have carried a person of your weight around with little real difficulty. But most people cannot. > > Also, I expect that, in the above estimate, you are not allowing for the fact that an aerial emergency is going to involve pitching, yawing, and that other plane motion I can never remember. Plunging. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/397 "2011-06-23T23:37:17Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > > > ``` > > I am a large and burly person. I can and have carried a person of your weight around with little real difficulty. But most people cannot. > > > > ``` > > > > Also, I expect that, in the above estimate, you are not allowing for the fact that an aerial emergency is going to involve pitching, yawing, and that other plane motion I can never remember. > > Plunging. 😃 The usual threats for insolence. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Rolling! Stop being smarter than me, or something painful, improbable, and comic-booky will occur. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/398 "2011-06-23T23:40:39Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > Im not a 3yr old. Then stop acting like one. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/399 "2011-06-23T23:43:11Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Rolling! Pitch, roll, and yaw are the controllable motions that are usually mentioned. There’s also acceleration. Whether adds vertical motion to the mix. (i.e., ‘straight up’ and ‘straight down’.) G-forces are mostly noticed in banks. A 60º bank (which would only be used in an emergency on an airliner) results in two g’s. Negative-g can happen in a strong downdraft, or if the pilot suddenly noses over (to avoid another aircraft, for instance). An unsecured person (and baggage, and wheelchairs, and anything else) might find himself on the overhead. Of course when the downdraft stops or the pilot pulls out of the dive, anything up comes down. One thing to remember is that these motions may occur in any or all combinations. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/400 "2011-06-24T00:02:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am a large and burly person. I can and have carried a person of your weight around with little real difficulty. But most people cannot. > > Also, I expect that, in the above estimate, you are not allowing for the fact that an aerial emergency is going to involve pitching, yawing, and that other plane motion I can never remember. I don’t understand the point of this post. I would never, under any circumstances (short of being injured), allow myself to be carried by anyone. What are you saying here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244.md?page=21)