# The Problem with Planes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244 "2011-06-21T03:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/401 "2011-06-24T00:03:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Then stop acting like one. Care to expound on that snippet? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/402 "2011-06-24T00:05:48Z")
People! (:)) I am not suggesting being completely unrestrained in the aisle chair. But just like you in your seat, I would be secured with an over-the-lap seatbelt. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/403 "2011-06-24T00:10:46Z")
I’m a little unclear why the cross-chest seat belts are a problem. I assume you wear a standard shoulder belt when you drive, or for that matter when you’re a passenger and someone else is driving. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/404 "2011-06-24T01:11:15Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I don’t understand the point of this post. I would never, under any circumstances (short of being injured), allow myself to be carried by anyone. What are you saying here? I think what he is saying is that at a certain point no one can stay on their feet or restrain themselves when an airplane is going through violent motions due to turbulence or whatever, and that with only two functional limbs you’d be at a greater disadvantage than the able-bodied, which might lead to you being injured to the point of being incapacitated and _needing_ to be carried by another. But I’m not entirely sure. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/405 "2011-06-24T01:48:29Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > People! (:)) I am not suggesting being completely unrestrained in the aisle chair. But just like you in your seat, I would be secured with an over-the-lap seatbelt. On a narrow moving chair while the plane is in motion? I don’t _think_ so. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/406 "2011-06-24T01:53:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > On a narrow moving chair while the plane is in motion? > > I don’t _think_ so. LMAO, well thank GOD, you are nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/407 "2011-06-24T01:57:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I think what he is saying is that at a certain point no one can stay on their feet or restrain themselves when an airplane is going through violent motions due to turbulence or whatever, and that with only two functional limbs you’d be at a greater disadvantage than the able-bodied, which might lead to you being injured to the point of being incapacitated and _needing_ to be carried by another. > > But I’m not entirely sure. Well under THAT scenario I’d agree that I’d need to be carried. But look back at what I said earlier. That was the one situation in which I did say I would find being carried apropo. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/408 "2011-06-24T02:00:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > On a narrow moving chair while the plane is in motion? > > I don’t _think_ so. I, unlike you, have been in the aisle chairs before. I know, and I’m only speaking for myself here, that the one over-the lap seatbelt would be adequate to secure me in the chair. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/409 "2011-06-24T02:29:25Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I don’t understand the point of this post. I would never, under any circumstances (short of being injured), allow myself to be carried by anyone. What are you saying here? He’s saying if the aircraft goes engine-out on one wing and spins and you are suddenly sprawled halfway into Row J because your torso wasn’t strapped in, he doesn’t want people to have to extract your ass from the other passengers instead of just pushing your chair someplace safe and secure. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/410 "2011-06-24T02:49:10Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I, unlike you, have been in the aisle chairs before. I know, and I’m only speaking for myself here, that the one over-the lap seatbelt would be adequate to secure me in the chair. 1. I _have_ had to use that chair before. 2. Please show me the studies that tell us that 1 lap belt is adequate to secure the average handicapped person on a moving aisle chair during mild to severe turbulence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/411 "2011-06-24T02:50:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > He’s saying if the aircraft goes engine-out on one wing and spins and you are suddenly sprawled halfway into Row J because your torso wasn’t strapped in, he doesn’t want people to have to extract your ass from the other passengers instead of just pushing your chair someplace safe and secure. It’s o.k. if he breaks the arm of a passenger he slams into-he’s got a _waiver_! ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/412 "2011-06-24T02:59:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s o.k. if he breaks the arm of a passenger he slams into-he’s got a _waiver_! All these hypotheticals, the ones where I’m just flying all over the place completely out of control, are getting absurd. I am the one who knows what the dynamics of the aisle chair experience are, not all you loud mouths. Sure, you can concoct all these crazy, implausible scenarios as the “worst case situations”, but you still have absolutely no idea what the chair itself is like or what I am like. My advice is to bite your tongues. If I am belted in with a standard seat belt, FOR ME, this is plenty. Now for the paralyzed from the neck down quadraplegic, those additional belts are necessary. But under no circumstances would I ever be in the position that you are describing. If severe turbulence happened, out of the whole duration of the flight, the minute or two I was in the aisle chair, the belt, plus my ability to additionally secure myself with my arms would prevent any such disaster. Now, I would say in the case of HORRIBLE emergencies, that which are potentially deadly, EVERYONE would be in the same boat. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/413 "2011-06-24T03:02:00Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I am the one who knows what the dynamics of the aisle chair experience are, not all you loud mouths. Are you saying that I told a lie when I said I have used that aisle chair? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/414 "2011-06-24T03:15:24Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > All these hypotheticals… Sure, you can concoct all these crazy, implausible scenarios… [… altitude variations within 16 feet causing the trolleys to lift off the aircraft floor, fall back onto the floor and tip over.](http://avherald.com/h?article=43e4e36b) [Thirty passengers injured, one critically](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7902120/Air-passengers-injured-after-plane-hits-turbulence.html) [Up to 40 people were injured when a Qantas jet flying from Singapore to Perth experienced mid-air turbulence](http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/25641) [One killed, 102 injured in turbulence](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=odBeAAAAIBAJ&sjid=q-gFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1910,5764618&dq=turbulence+passengers+injured&hl=en) [Over 30 passengers injured](http://www.airlinereporter.com/2009/08/continental-flight-hits-bad-turbulence-over-30-passengers-injured/) Yeah, ‘hypothetical’. ‘Implausible’. As a pilot, one thing that irks me when I fly commercially is how passengers think airplanes are just really fast buses. They’re not. The rules are there for everyone’s safety. But I’ve noticed that many people think the rules shouldn’t apply to them. After all, they’re autonomous adults. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/415 "2011-06-24T03:17:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [… altitude variations within 16 feet causing the trolleys to lift off the aircraft floor, fall back onto the floor and tip over.](http://avherald.com/h?article=43e4e36b) > > [Thirty passengers injured, one critically](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7902120/Air-passengers-injured-after-plane-hits-turbulence.html) > > [Up to 40 people were injured when a Qantas jet flying from Singapore to Perth experienced mid-air turbulence](http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/25641) > > [One killed, 102 injured in turbulence](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=odBeAAAAIBAJ&sjid=q-gFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1910,5764618&dq=turbulence+passengers+injured&hl=en) > > [Over 30 passengers injured](http://www.airlinereporter.com/2009/08/continental-flight-hits-bad-turbulence-over-30-passengers-injured/) > > Yeah, ‘hypothetical’. ‘Implausible’. > > As a pilot, one thing that irks me when I fly commercially is how passengers think airplanes are just really fast buses. They’re not. The rules are there for everyone’s safety. But I’ve noticed that many people think the rules shouldn’t apply to them. After all, they’re autonomous adults. “Now, I would say in the case of HORRIBLE emergencies, that which are potentially deadly, EVERYONE would be in the same boat.” One thing that irks me is when people post without reading. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/416 "2011-06-24T03:19:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you saying that I told a lie when I said I have used that aisle chair? I’m sorry, all these posts can get mistaken for one another. When and why did you have to use one? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/417 "2011-06-24T03:24:10Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > “Now, I would say in the case of HORRIBLE emergencies, that which are potentially deadly, EVERYONE would be in the same boat.” One thing that irks me is when people post without reading. Ah, I see. Then I want to be on a plane with you, since nothing horrible will ever happen to a plane you’re one. :rolleyes: Yes, everyone will be ‘in the same boat’. Except for the ones who followed the rules and kept their belts on as instructed. And most of the others will be more capable of moving than you are. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/418 "2011-06-24T03:31:39Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > All these hypotheticals, the ones where I’m just flying all over the place completely out of control, are getting absurd. I am the one who knows what the dynamics of the aisle chair experience are, not all you loud mouths. Does the airline share this dynamic knowledge? If they don’t know you and the extent of your mad chair-fu skillz, shouldn’t they take additional precautions? After all, not all paraplegics are as dynamic as you claim you are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/419 "2011-06-24T03:35:09Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#): > > I’m sorry, all these posts can get mistaken for one another. When and why did you have to use one? A few years back I had an aneurysm at the base of my skull, and came within a couple of hours of dying. After they scraped out some swollen material, it took me a while to relearn how to walk and talk. Mom insisted on taking care of me, so I flew out for a visit. Care to guess how I made it to the bathroom on the flight out? Twice? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244/420 "2011-06-24T03:37:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Ah, I see. Then I want to be on a plane with you, since nothing horrible will ever happen to a plane you’re one. :rolleyes: > > Yes, everyone will be ‘in the same boat’. Except for the ones who followed the rules and kept their belts on as instructed. And most of the others will be more capable of moving than you are. ?Huh? Ok, it’s already been established that the rules in place regarding disabled passengers are designed to be able to accomodate the most severely disabled people. I am not suggesting being in the aisle chair unbelted and unsecured. What I am suggesting is some sort of system (that may even be too strong of a word) that allowed some realistic flexibility (which a competent attendant is more than capable of exerting) when a significantly less-disabled passenger happens to need to use the chair. I don’t know where you are coming up with the notion that I think I’m immune to plane disasters. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-planes/586244.md?page=22)